I saw this at Coble’s and about cried. I’ve been thinking about it now for two days and I see that Pink Kitty says she’s going to address it, but I also want to say something about it.
For those of you who need to be brought up to speed, Pink Kitty has been taking dance now for a while and has gotten awesome at it. Brittney over at Nashville is Talking posted a clip of PK dancing up a storm.
The very first comment at NiT, from some ass who calls himself Wintermute, was “Skip it, dudes. Another blogging whale.”
You can see that the comments at NiT and Coble’s place pretty quickly filled up with cries of “what an asshole!” But I think it’s important to call he-man woman-hating what it is, and this is classic he-man woman-hating bullshit.
Let’s just consider the assumptions one has to have in order to make a comment like this:
1. That the only reason dudes looks look at anything on the internet is to see hot women.
2. That Wintermute knows what kind of women all men searching for hot women on the internet find hot.
3. That only dudes scan the internet looking for hot women.
God, this whole thing is making me so made again, I can’t even finish my snarky analysis.
See, here’s the thing. Wintermute can only pull bullshit like that for two reasons: 1. the opinions of women don’t count to him and 2. He can chalk it up to “pussy”-hood if any men disagree with him.
Do you see how fucking woman-detesting that attitude is? He gets to discount any objections to his bullshit because they either come from women or come from men he can decide have girly characteristics. And who gives a shit what girly-folks think? It’s fine to be cruel to them.
Peruse over to his blog. Notice what he looks like. Now, try to imagine what woman in the Tennessee blogging world would, if Brittney posted to something of his, ever say “Don’t waste your time, gals. It’s just another blogging toad.”
Who would say that? Frankly, the only three women I can think of mean enough to do something like that are me, Brittney, and Amanda, and Amanda doesn’t have a blog. And I can honestly say that it would never have occurred to me to do so except in direct retaliation for this.
Most women just don’t believe that we deserve a world full of men who conform to our narrow standards of what beauty is and so we wouldn’t expect anyone to give a shit if we’re grouching about how something we see fails to fit it.
And second, because we all know that “Don’t waste your time, gals. Just another blogging toad.” is not the same thing as “Skip it, dudes. Another blogging whale.”
Even though the words are very similar, the insult is much different precisely because there’s not the same wide-spread cultural… not just belief… but imperative that men conform to very narrow beauty standards that others are free to help police that there is for women.
Just like there’s no equivalent for “slut” or “whore” or “cunt” or “bitch”–those words that, when we hear them let us know we don’t fit and that how we stand out could quickly become dangerous for us–there’s no way for me to casually call forth and fling at a man an assumed collective judgment of all women. If I wrote “Don’t waste your time, gals. Just another blogging toad,” I’m willing to bet money that you all would assume I was stating my own opinion of him and that some of you would call me on what bullshit it is to state it in such a way that I imply that everyone with tits would agree with me.
I’m not saying this didn’t happen in Wintermute’s case. Clearly it did.
I’m saying that dude could not have even typed such hurtful bullshit except that he believes himself to have a great many men who agree with him and who will, even if they don’t say so, be cheering him on if he’s ever called on his bullshit by the women and girly-men who disagree with him.
Can I just say something?
A woman ought to be able to post a clip of herself dancing on the internet without it requiring any bravery.
It is crazy that we live in a society where a woman has to be brave to post a clip of herself dancing.
No, it’s beyond crazy.
It breaks my heart that Pink Kitty can’t post a clip of herself doing something she’s incredibly good at without having to steel herself first, because she must know that the first thing many folks see is not just a woman dancing, but someone who dares show herself without considering whether she meets whatever current acceptable criteria for aesthetic object.
God. I want to make this point in a way that’s clear.
That’s Pink Kitty dancing. When you watch it, you’re supposed to see Pink Kitty dancing. If it turns you on, that’s fine. I, myself, find it very hard to watch the way her skirt slips around her legs and gives you glimpses of thigh, and not find myself blushing. That’s a human reaction to somebody doing something that’s damn sexy. But just because Pink Kitty is a woman doing something that other people might find sexy doesn’t give anyone the right to pass judgment on Pink Kitty as an aesthetic object and I am sorry to Pink Kitty that some folks don’t get that. It’s not Pinky Kitty’s problem if you find her hot or not and it is bullshit to criticize her as if it is.
Let me spell it out:
Even if I buy that you cannot help but think about sex whenever you see a hot woman, that does not oblige womankind to make sure that we are “hot” in just the right way to trigger your sexual fantasies or, if we can’t do that, to never make public appearances.
That’s all. I’m grossed out. In a perfect world, Wintermute would have woken up today looking exactly how he does but with woman parts and then he’d have to go out in the world.
Update on Monday, January 8, 2007 at 11:45AM
Pink Kitty Responds
If you haven’t seen it yet, I highly recommend checking out Pink Kitty’s response to this whole situation. She handles it with incredible class.
Right on, B. I challenge Wintermute to say that to Pink Kitty’s face.
Uh, thought I should clarify that I’m not advocating some sort of altercation between the two. I think that, in addition to all the points you raised, that said blogger would not have the guts to make such a remark in person.
here’s a thought (and i don’t disagree with anything you said, B), would the world have ended if Brittney just deleted Wintermute’s stupid comment? It isn’t news and it has nothing to do with journalistic integrity. If anyone posted a comment on my stupid blog that was hurtful to someone else, I’d delete it. Say what you want about me, but watch what you say about other people.If it was political opinion or some free speech issue, I’d say something like we can all disagree..blah blah..we don’t have to like what he said but he has the right to say it..blah blah blah..but in this case..it was just rude shit and doesn’t deserve the attention it gets other than to point out that some that the double standard of male/female body analysis. I’m not dissing Brittney for not deleting it, but I don’t think the world would have lost anything and i don’t think that bloggers everwhere would suffer if she just dumped it like so much spam.
the second to last paragraph got somehow strangely garbled. The point being is that leaving that comment out there is a stark reminder that men and women’s value/worth/bodies get analysed in a totally different double standard kind of way. And, guess what, we already knew this without Wintermute’s comment~!
Hey, dammit, I’m mean enough. ;)
This whole thing makes me sad because PK was quite elegant and beautiful, but we are talking about a jerk who is most likely reveling in his new notoriety. He is an attorney out of Memphis and has irritated people before (giving me a bit of hell in the comments on a blog back over the summer. One where Brittney defended me which I was grateful for.)So I make this comparison:I do not run all the Letters to the Editor at the paper. Some of them just go beyond being cordial. The blogging world is different than a newspaper, I know this as I do both, but I can’t help but agree with John H. here.Censoring an idealogy/political thought process because an editor/publisher disagrees is one thing. You don’t do it! Ethically, it’s wrong because it stifles a voice.And yet to quote B …Not including a personal attack in a form of any media when the intent is to be malicious will be eliminated where I work. There is no reason to put personal attacks in the paper for a multitude of legal and ethical reasons. This does not mean that quoted personal attacks happen in the harder news at our paper, but this is not that in the least.I guess we are all learning along the way in this new blogging world, but PK didn’t deserve this and it hurt me just to see those words sitting there.Her hard work and style should have been the focus. Not a guy trolling and being dog ass mean.
Ivy…my thoughts exactly! ;)
I went and took a gander at his blog, and at his myspace page. And I would say that the guy just feels entitled, period. I’m not sure he does think he’s speaking for men generally; I think he’s equally likely to condescend to other men in just the same way. You can tell by the way he makes sure you know he’s a Harvard man. He claims to be a Buddhist, BTW. Gotta love that.
Argh! Ivy. I can’t believe I forgot about you! Of course you’re mean enough. Shoot, NM, he went to the Vanderbilt of the Northeast? Hmm. It is odd that he thinks he’s a Buddhist. Perhaps he misstated and thinks he’s the current incarnation of the Buddha.
Well, all I know is what he claims on his myspace page (same picture as at his blog), but I’m sure you’re right about what he really means. Of course, that would be the current incarnation of he Buddha when he was still Prince Guatama, and into self-indulgent hedonism and attachment to the world. It would explain a lot….
Oh, and as far as his looks? He is just not all that hot.
I thought about deleting it. But my boss REALLY frown on deleting already published comments. Now, he probably wouldn’t have minded in this case, but in the end I chose not to. I’m not sure my reason. In any case, I’m glad to see he’s getting a public spanking for it.
he’s getting a public spanking, but a lot of attention as well. I just don’t think that rude asshats deserve the attention.I know it’s a judgement call, but I’m guessing that the non-delete comment policy really doesn’t include personal hurtful statements.
I don’t know. Brittney’s had some trouble with doing things that seem reasonable and getting spanked on them. I don’t blame her for being cautious. And no, probably he doesn’t deserve any attention, but I also think that people deserve to know who he is.He sucks, and I am furious that he’d say such a shitty thing about someone I like, but I think Brittney has a responsibility to not shield the readers of NiT from the truth about him.I didn’t see the thing with Newscoma and so I know when I see him around NiT, I just assume he’s a regular conservative guy; I’m probably not going to agree with him, but I’ve got no reason to be cautious around him.Now? Now I know he’s a hateful ass and I’m not going to extend to him the same courtesy I extend other conservative guys.I’m sorry that he’s a fucker, but I’m not sorry to know it. I think deleting the comment might have saved Pink Kitty that initial pain, but it wouldn’t have protected her, which, John, I could be misreading, but I think that’s what you wish there’d have been some way to do.
you nailed me, uh, it, Aunt B. I just hate for anybody (not just the really nice folks like PK) to be hit with that…not that PK isn’t an adult and can’t handle it.It just seems so gratuitous and just wrong.
not shutting up just yet…where is it written about the sanctity of the ‘comment’. I can see where in most circumstances you don’t touch the comments, but this ain’t a 1st amendment issue.The real reason to leave stuff alone may be that it puts Brittney in a traffic cop position she probably doesn’t deserve or would feel comfortable being in..but, occasionally when there is just plain gratuitous meanness, I don’t see any reason to leave it out there..probably just me. And, a lotta people did get to see something about this guy they may not have known before.
Leaving the comment in place was the right thing to do. Now is repulsiveness is on display for the world to see, and remember.
I feel guilty. In retrospect, I think I should have contacted Pink Kitty personally and discussed with her whether or not to leave the comment.
He has cited in the past that he leans left (I don’t see it.) I guess what I was trying to say in my comment (and here I’m defending myself) is the differences between newspapers and the new digital media. Decisions made for newspapers and for digital are in a state of emergence and that was my point.I wasn’t judging Brittney’s decision just making an observation. It’s a whole different medium and I’m trying to learn the rules myself. I thought I was clear. Maybe not.Oh, the situation I was writing of was a guy on a conservative blog over in Memphis who basically said I had no right to run a newspaper and blog from a liberal perspective. This guy (not Wintermute) called me stupid, then said he didn’t call me stupid and then … you get the point.I didn’t acknowledge it at the time although it’s on of my new pages on the new blog now. And Brittney defended me in the comments which I really appreciated.Basically, I made a statement off the cuff in a comment on another blog and he ran with it citing I was an idiot.We actually laughed about it over at my abode, then realized this was an angry, angry person. I decided to let them say what they wanted to say and be done with it.No reason to give it free room and board in my cranium.Wintermute sort of fed into the comments after leaving several comments on my blog that seemed to be more about me being female than any knowledge I have about anything.And that is what is so sad. I guess he saw my picture and realized I looked like a chubby soccer mom and backed off. He may have realized Squirrely is more than just a roommate.(Laughing as I write this.)Anyway, I think his comment over at NiT was absolutely appalling and as a woman who has had insecurities about my looks, it made me sad, then incredibly angry. And I do get what Brittney is saying about her Powers That Be making a policy about deletion because the bosses are the bottom line (mine remind me of this on an ongoing basis.)Chris is also correct. It does illuminate. And that’s not a bad thing, I just hate that PK is going through this.
Oh, and can I just say that all this shit ALWAYS happens on the weekend."I wasn’t even supposed to be here today!"
I think it would have been best to delete it,(for the reasons John initially mentioned) but I understand why Brittney hesitated–especially if her boss has asked her not to delete published comments. On the other hand, had she been black and he had used the "n" word, it probably would have been deleted. I don’t see why deragatory comments about a non thin woman is any different. I do think it important to be consistent. Everyone likes PK, and Aunt B made a comment about attacking some she likes, ("I am furious that he’d say such a shitty thing about someone I like") but I would hope Aunt B and everyone else would be just as committed to defending someone they didn’t like given the exact same circumstances. We all agree what Wintermute did was awful and wrong. The question I have is if everyone who has jumped on him if he had done this with a woman they didn’t know or didn’t like?The only way to keep any moral high ground is to apply the same rules to everyone. BTW, I wrote one of the West TN bloggers during the night, and he/she told me he would make sure all the bloggers there knew, though he/she wasn’t surprised Wintermute did this, so apparently Wintermute has a little pattern going on here.PK looked fabulous, and she loves dance and I look forward to going to her next one next week. Why don’t y’all join me if you’re able to?
OOPS PS–I forogt to metnion the dates and times. Because of idiots like Wintermoot,[sic] I won’t mention the place publicly, but why don’t we all plan on going one of these times and support PK?It’s Jan 19-21:Friday Matinee $15 Friday Evening $30 Saturday Matinee $15 Saturday Evening $30 Sunday Matinee $15 Sunday Evening $30 If y’all are interested in making this an event we can all attend together, email me and I’ll give you the location. I am leaning toward the Sunday afternoon matinee.
I know it’s not a very productive thing to say, but I have a difficult time understanding how a guy who looks like this has any room to criticize anyone else’s outer appearance. Ick.
Brittney – you shouldn’t feel guilty. The other side of my argument is the slippery slope..’well, she deleted THAT comment, why didn’t she delete THIS comment, etc. etc. etc.I just hate it when civility is abandoned, but this is not an easy thing to unravel.
Agreeing with John H. here, Brittney.Part of it. You did fine, and Wage is right, it did spark discussion and most of it has been healthy outrage directed at someone (Wintermute) who went over the boundaries of civility.That wasn’t you.
Sharon, after you called me a "cruel, evil bitch" and said, "You are a major mean person who thinks you’re much more important than you are because a handful of people kiss your ass from your little clique. There are tons more who think you’re a boorish, cruel person." you asked that I stop making comments about you or to you.Despite my boorish, cruel, evil bitch ways, I’ve done my best to abide by your wishes. However, if you keep commenting here, it will be impossible for me to refrain from responding to you. I suggest then, that you take whatever well-meaning thing you’re up to at the moment over to your own site, as I would hate to inadvertently offend you by anything you might read over here.
It’s a shame you couldn’t respond (PUBLICLY) with some dignity.I have kept my words about you to email, where you choose to attack me publicly–which goes to the core of what happened to PK. If it’s not okay to attack her publicly (and it’s not) perhaps you could be consistent.The only time I’ve ever commented publicly to anyone with less than kindness was AFTER being PERSONALLY attacked.You made my point for me…again.
Whoa. Sharon Cobb is sending you private nasty email? Is she in jr. high?
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.We are still talking about Wintermute, right?
Yes, thank you. Let’s get back to Wintermute.
"Toad?"I concur. Wholeheartedly. It’s always the fugly ones that make such horrid remarks like that.
I just want to say that I love the title of your post. hehehe I would also like to say that I think it was actually a good thing that came from Brittney not deleting his comment, because it has caused us all to take a look inward and at each other…and once again be reminded at how much words can hurt each other, to realize that we are all beautiful regardless of society’s stereotype for what is supposed to be beautiful, and hopefully make us all think before we click on "Enter"–it has definitely done that for me…
I would just like to note that I, like Ivy am that mean. You don’t know me, but I assure you I have no mercy for people who make such attacks.
Yikes. I think the jerk got what he went after, and that, my wonderfully viscious friends, is attention. If he is truly that insensitive and shallow, I imagine he must need to inflate his sex partners.(probably why he lashed out at real beauty)
Yes, but to note that he wants attention is akin to asking us not to give it to him. It’s true that ignoring someone is a great tool the powerful regularly use, but let’s not forget that it’s often the last refuge of the powerless.And that’s the judgment we’ve had to make. Do we say nothing? And, if so, do we appear, in that case, powerless?
Yeah, that’s always bothered me about the "if you just ignore him, he’ll go away" argument. In some cases it works well (mostly if you have the power to both continue as you were without the other person and to protect yourself from any waves they might make), but in many, it doesn’t do anything of use.Depending on the type of bully, it only makes things worse.In this case, I feel it’s a tossup. He might’ve been reasonably ignored if a person in power (in this case, brittney, who was in a position of technical power with her finger on the "delete" button, as it were. Whether or not she truly had the opportunity to exercise that agency is a different, but related, issue) was there to do the ignoring; that is, to make sure his ‘voice’ was silenced in the arena. That’s an important thing to remember here; he’s using words as weapons. We can spout all sorts of things about ignoring them, or turning them against him, or not letting them effect us (which can work! And are good tools of a person’s reperetoire, but oughtn’t be all we say), but if the object is to prevent or lessen harm, then the surest way is to take away the weapons.Here, of course, one might debate whether the goal, in this case is to prevent or lessen harm, and the ethical implications of silencing a dissenting voice, however harmful. I point it out so strongly here because – and I am not saying that any of the voices here, in this particular thread, are doing this, but rather that this is a tendency in such conversations in general – there is a strong odor of … not exactly victim blaming, but emphasis shifting. The other person isn’t going to change, so you have to. You have to grow thicker skin, ignore the creep, and let them keep hitting you with their weapon of choice, because you cannot make them stop. In a fistfight, sure, body armor will keep you from getting hurt, but wouldn’t it be nice if nobody was swinging at you at all?Which returns us to my tossup. Most of the time, it’s not really possible to get the other person to stop. Schoolyard bullies and internet trolls have that in common. However, when dealing with trolls, at least one has the option to ban them. It’s not always the best option, but it is there.The other option, saying something about it, has its own problems. You can’t make it go away, and you’re unlikely to be able to get the behavior to change, but you’ve done something. There are other reasons to speak out than behavior modification. You might give comfort, or reaffirm held beliefs, or come up with alternate solutions. Or you might just vent.That, I think, is the other reason that counsel to just ignore the troll bothers me. Sometimes, speaking out isn’t about them at all. It’s about me. It’s about you. It’s about our voices and our power, and the way we want things to be.(Again, I don’t want to say that anything so bad is happening in this thread. I just want to point out that there are a lot of things assumed in the "he just wanted attention and you gave it to him" paradigm.)
This is all part of the ongoing challenge of bad discourse driving out good on the nets. Allowing trolls to change the topic (which Wintermute has certainly managed to do) empowers them, but not responding makes their voices louder in the context of the surrounding silence. It’s a pity either way.
For what it’s worth, in reference to Sharon’s question:
I don’t know Pink Kitty, had never heard of her before this incident. I’m sure she’s a lovely person, but I don’t think all of us are reacting to this simply out of indignation for our friends. Not that it matters that much. I just wanted to set the record straight. And while I’m making stupid non-sequitor comments, I’ll add this: I can be pretty fucking mean, you know. Don’t count me out. ;)
Mean…Well, sometimes you just have to buckle down and baring your teeth.
I must agree with Kate O’. I’d never heard of Pink Kitty before. I watched the video, appreciated it, and left my appreciation at NiT, because, well, I appreciated it and wanted to add a positive voice.My analysis is as much because I like analyzing social situations as anything else. I defend her because she’s a good dancer, and even if she weren’t, she doesn’t deserve to be treated the way she was. The friend thing doesn’t quite enter.(Though yes, I’ll admit, there’s a level of "Oh, Aunt B and Coble like her, so I should too" tossed in there for good measure. The important thing is here, even if I didn’t know anyone, I’d still say the same thing. I do have a tendency to barge into conversation.)
I’m sorry..but i have to take a time-out here and call B.S. Magniloquence, you are obviously smart and well-written. I’ve enjoyed your comments on this blog in the past, but I’ve gotta say something here:"the ethical implications of silencing a dissenting voice, however harmful"Huh? a dissenting voice. What the asshat said was a rude comment to a person who took a chance and showed her talent. Please don’t elevate rudeness to the level of dissent.Dissent on this blog would be for me to say that a woman doesn’t have the right to decide what she should do with her body if she is pregnant (i’m not saying that, i’m giving you an example of dissent).Dissent on my blog would be saying that George Bush’s plan for Iraq makes any kind of sense. Real dissent can be bravery or it can just be someone who is not going along with the crowd for reasons of their own.But, a rude-ass comment about somebody’s body-type is not dissent. It’s just fucking wrong. If it needed to be left there to show how big of an ass-hat some guys can still be about stuff like this, so be it. That’s Pink Kitty’s and Brittney’s call. As Aunt B points out above, if you wanna see class in action, read PK’s post on this subject. I don’t understand how this stupid comment has been blessed with some first amendment patina. It’s not dissent. It’s rudeness.thanks. Am I still allowed in the clique?
Ha, nice try, John. But if you had been at the Christmas Day clique meeting, you would have known that I appointed you president-for-life of the clique so that I could devote my time to getting smooches. You can’t be kicked out.I’m totally digging this conversation, so I hope that everyone else is, too, because I think it’s helped clarify for me some really important things I hadn’t articulated to myself.And one is for sure how much "just ignore him" sounds like "the only effective power you can have in this situation is one of manipulation" to me, and perhaps to other folks.Not that I’m saying that’s what you’re implying at all, John. That’s what’s so interesting about this to me. It’s a moment where well-meaning folks who all want the best outcome possible for a situation honestly disagree on what the best course of action is because the assumptions that they bring to the conversation are so vastly different, and yet, we all remain only vaguely aware of how different those assumptions are.And yet, unlike other times when this happens, the assumptions are almost clear enough so that you can watch the wires get crossed in real time.I mean, we don’t even agree on what the best response to Wintermute would be, let alone why.It’s very, very interesting to me.
Oh! John, I’m sorry. I meant that in a general sense: that we could talk about whether the point in this case was to prevent harm, and in general about the ethics of silencing a (dissenting) voice. I realize that’s not evident in my sentence structure.That was intended to be a paragraph about ways conversations could branch from situations like this one, even if this one doesn’t hit all the points. I don’t think he offers a voice of useful dissent, in any way that would produce a useful conversation with him (though it is evident that he provides a catalyst for useful conversation about him, which is part of the point of my latter paragraphs; that sometimes it’s not about ‘to engage or not to engage,’ but about ‘what can we say about this?’). I do think that we can have a conversation about what qualifies as dissent, and whether it is a valid action to silence any voice, no matter how useful or not useful we find their input. I think that it’s sometimes the best option, but I’m a bit torn about whether, in the traditional philosophical sense, it might be the most ethical. (I think Kant would say a qualified yes (what is our duty, here?), Aristotle would say maybe, and modern ethicists would probably say no, but I’d have to review my books to get a better handle on that).As for the conversation, I’m enjoying it too, Aunt B. I hadn’t been able to articulate why it always bugged me when people said things like that. I feel like I could work a "power over"/"power with" issue in there too (though here, it’s more of a direct power/personal power/relative moral power issue than anything else); is it about making them stop, or making the situation less harmful, or making it so that their actions are irrelevant?Unfortunately, I’m not going to be able to complete that thought at the moment, as I have to drive to work and take my sister to school.
I still wondered if I should have left well enough alone. Because my first thought was that I didn’t want to expose PK’s [assumed] pain to a larger audience.But the more I thought about the more I realised that I was outraged. I was angry. And I figured that my blog is for the airing of my own emotions, and what better outlet is there? So I went with it. Yes, it brought the guy more attention. I don’t really mind that too much. He can have the attention, because along with that comes a knowledge that he is not a person respectful of others. Yes, that will bite him in the ass.
Ah! But before I run off, I meant to say:
That’s a great formulation of it, Aunt B. Concise, and gets at a subtlety I hadn’t quite vocalized.
Well, as a woman of a feministic persuasion, i can think of a few responses to Winterwhosis.and i agree: it isn’t a "dissenting voice." it was a poison dart, meant to hurt and nothing else. as noted above, it’s up to the person who was attacked and/or the person who runs the blog; if it were me, i’d squash that shit, but i respect the decision to leave it just to show what an asshat person X is, as testament.
Well, I thought the comment was rude, crass and shallow; however, I don’t think that Brittney needed (much less was obligated) to delete it. I think it brought appropriate opprobrium (clever, huh?) to WinterMute and his reputation. Hopefully he’ll learn something from it; and hopefully we will learn something about him.Which is my next, though less-important, point. WinterMute is no political Conservative, though many of you presumed such and some of you even asserted it. Please file this experience away under "mean-spirited" and "motives."
Wintermute–the name of the AI in the book Neuromancer. There was a charecter in that novel, a mercenary, named Molly, who would have torn the little name-stealing troll’s ass to shreds.Otherwise, what you said, Aunt B.
WinterMute is no political Conservative, No, that’s true. He’s pretty liberal in all but economics. He tends to be a bit more free-market conservative when the discussion turns to the economy. Other than that he’s fairly left-wing. He does have a very personal vendetta against the Ford machine, though, so I think his anti-Fordian ways left some confusion about his natural bent during the election.
Mm, having looked through his blog, I’ll agree that he’s not politically conservative, though he’s certainly not Mr. Left-leaning, either. I’d peg him as a just-left-of-center moderate.Given his tone and content, however, I’d say he qualifies as a social conservative on a few issues. I didn’t particularly feel like digging through everything he’s ever written to get a nuanced view, but given the tenor of things he espouses and the openly mysogynist tone and wording, I’d say that he falls right-of-center on that. (Which is not to say that open misogyny is a purely conservative trait, but that liberals tend to dress it up better than that, anyway.)
So the upshot is a spike in traffic for both Pink Kitty and Wintermute.Well played, you two.
Ehh. Traffic spikes only mean something as rewards if you can a) get people to stay, b) get people to listen to you while they’re there, or c) get advertising dollars from their presence. Other than that, I’ve never particularly thought that aspect of the argument was compelling.Even if the person literally gets off from the attention, as long as they don’t come into my space with it (or get it all over the floor, ew), I’ll take a fruitful discussion at the cost of a small ego boost for an annoyance over just ignoring him any day.
I wandered over to Wintermute’s blog to see what kind of person would post something like this. Here’s something he wrote in an entry about himself and his blog sometime on or before November 9th, 2006:"But even if you don’t always give me credit, I do expect you to give me proper respect."
That made me laugh pretty damn hard.
Hi, I was directed over here from Alas by Amps’ nod in your direction.About the idea that ignoring people like Wintermute is the best option, I strongly disgree. Firstly because as has already been stated his comment wasn’t "dissent", it was a personal attack. Secondly, I think there’s something to the idea that silence implies agreement. People should be smacked down when they say offensive things. I don’t think for a minute that a sexist moron is going to change his tune on because his sexism is pointed out, but I still think that the smackdown is worthwhile. Not just because it’s fun for us (although it is), but because of all the silent lurkers who never comment and whose political conciousness may not really be fully formed yet. Wrong thinking and bad actions need to be pointed out. Think of it this way – there are plenty of people blogging about how asinine the Bush policy on Iraq is. Do any of us think that the administration is going to change it’s policy because of our little blog entries? Not really. But the cumulative effect of having the idiocy of the policy pointed out over and over again, now that’s another thing. How many people might have stopped backing the administration after seeing not one or two, but many critiques of its policies? We’ll never know for sure, but it’s entirely possible that a few minds might have been changed, and if that’s trus then it was all worthwhile in the end. It’s the same with smacking people down for sexism, or racism, or any other form of objectionable comments. One smackdown probably doesn’t change anything, but what about the cumulative effect?On another note, I’m constantly tempted to write something about the general unf@#$ability of sexist asshats like our friend Wintermute. I’ve yet to see an attractive MRA, for example. The question is whether my doing so would do more harm than good. I’m not sure, honestly, but I remain tempted. Thoughts?PS As may already be obvious I am plenty mean enough to point out that Wintermute’s comments are particularly laughable given the fact that nobody, and I mean nobody, would want to see him dancing, especially if we could see his thighs. Blech! The face is bad enough.
Well, King Uber-Asshole wossname, ah, Tucker Max, I take it he’s considered physically attractive enough, in a smarmy fratboy sort of way. I’d say it’s sour grapes for the vast majority of ’em, though. and christ knows what else is missing from Tucker’s little life. the irony of the entitlement is what’s delicious about it. "Hott chicks only mumblescratchbrapfart."
I was asked to read and review Wintermute’s comment. I can only say this: He is not a lover of women and doesn’t have any idea what they want. His hostility stems from fear…and you cannot appreciate a woman if you fear her. Further, true eroticism requires understanding. Understanding is based on openess. Wintermute has neither.Since beauty is an inner quality, Wintermute will never truly appreciate beautiful women (and ALL women are beautiful). He is lost in the superficial world of his conditioning. One last thing, he will never help a woman to orgasm, since that requires the understanding he lacks. If in fact he is a lawyer, I would advise his clients to get a second opinion!Cheers,Savant