Dear Carter,
Do you recall being a paleoconservative (which, as far as I can tell, means that you are a conservative who was born millions of years ago and has become crusty and covered in mud), while I flounce around the internet being all cute and right and stuff?
We have a system. You say things. I tell you how stupid they are. You get mad. I feel kind of bad, but then think about how you always refuse to come to lunch with Brittney and me and get over it. You probably write my latest outrageous act down in a little green notebook which you will hurl at me at some later date. I will cry. You’ll feel bad about making a girl cry, but then you’ll think of how obnoxious I am to you and get over it.
It’s not a perfect system, but it’s ours.
So, why do you have to fuck with it? Why do you have to write things that I completely agree with? That I find funny and snarky and delightful?
Those kinds of posts just make me sad that you never hang out with us and get drunk and show us how manly conservatives pee (which, from reading, I have discerned is the true sign of a conservative male–the insistence on his right to whip out his dick and urinate standing up, which, for some reason, the Swedes are trying to take from you). I have, on occasion, done the squat in the woods and try not to pee on your shoes bit, but if there’s some class in the manly art of peeing as insight into the conservative male mind, I’d be happy to take that course, even for no credit.
Whew, I’m sorry. I got distracted by the notion of being in a room full of conservative men all with their penises hanging out. Was there a point?
Let me think.
Ah, yes, it is this. When you are snarky and funny and right, it makes me delighted on the one hand, and sad on the other that you never come raising hell with us.
You’re young; life is short; don’t let an opportunity to gently lick a boob freckle pass you by.
At least, that’s what I always say.
Love,
Aunt B.
p.s. Do you really think there’s a large contingent of Swedish women who don’t like it when men stand up to pee? Something about Rose’s story just reaks of something Snopes.com needs to look into, because, really, unless Swedish men are distance pee-ers with really bad aim, why would Swedish women care?
p.p.s. Wouldn’t distance peeing be an awesome Olympic sport? I bet it was an unofficial event back when the Olympics were naked.
Tiny Cat Pants 
Standing while peeing is only a symbol of the patriarchy if there’s a woman kneeling in front of you.(Which, I’ve never tried. I knew you were wondering, B)
I swear to god, if you’re making a reference to what I think you’re making a reference to, I am leaving work, hunting down the Professor and, maybe, Sarcastro, and kicking their asses. A girl says one thing about being open…No, you know, we’re not having this discussion until I get back from ass kicking.And I said it’d have to be in the shower. In the shower. I’m sorry. I just don’t think that’s that fucking weird.Gah. I cannot believe this is still coming up.
What did I do this time?
Ho-way old-tay ador-exay bout-ay e-they eeing-pay n-oay e-may n-iay e-they ower-shay?Were you not there for that discussion? If not, then never mind. I thought you were there for the tail end of it.
Well, you did blog about it. Even I knew about it. There was a long discussion about it here in the comments.
Did I? Oops. Well, then. Ass-kicking canceled. Apologies all around.
*snickers* Obviously, I missed something.The shower is a good idea, but you need a soft bath mat or your knees are going to scream bloody murder.>.> <.<… I’m overthinking again, aren’t I?
Might Sarcastro have been (albeit slightly unwillingly) on the phone for various parts of that conversation? I’m getting a few different drunken nights with my brother confused in my memory.
Yes, America, I get drunk and call Sarcastro and tell him about my plans to let hot men pee on me in the shower. Envy or sympathize with him as you deem necessary.And yes, even knowing that I have a tendency to do this, he still answers the phone when I call. Which is mighty nice of him, all things considered.
I wanna party with Magniloquence!That girl is wild!
Mag, true enough. And once the cat sees that you let, say, Exador pee on the bathmat, there’s no way to keep him from doing it, too.
Lot of pee talk going around the Intertube today.I forgot about your piss post from sometime ago. Seemed the prudent thing to do.
but back to the other point of the post … When did you start respecting and agreeing with ad hominem attacks? Of course I can imagine why you don’t want to disregard the idea of retirement. But 1) the college professor gives reasons and evidence for his views that cannot be reduced to mere experience and personal interest*, and 2) even if you want to disagree about the value of retirement, some of the facts he states are still relevant to an economic discussion about what the government both can and should offer to its citizens of any age as well as old age. * of which we have VERY little knowledge anyhow
*blushes* Oh yes. Wiiiild.But Aunt B is right; you must have a care for the tender sensibilities of the cat. For if you don’t devote all of your time and energies to molding its behavior by restricting your own, what kind of role model are you?
On to the actual topic, as the Professor points… I didn’t see it so much as an ad hominem on the professor in question (or even the class of professors in general), but rather a slightly-too-pointed jab at the fact that the position being stated is a privileged one.I wish I had my copy of Williams’ UnBending Gender with me, because she has a great section about this. Upper and middle class perspectives on jobs, their worth, and relative place in life are informed by the idea that one can and ought be able to have a career that is emotionally and mentally fulfilling. That it is possible to do something that is better than not working, not merely because of the money, but because it is something you at least don’t hate.She goes on to analyze how that affects perception of child-rearing and the place of the homemaker (getting to stay home and raise your children as a privileged activity, because it is better than brutal factory work or scut work at a department store, in addition to being less dangerous for children who might otherwise not have access to quality childcare; where for a middle class woman who has a reasonable chance of accesss to quality childcare and a reasonable opportunity for (and expectation of) a fulfilling and interesting career, the position is a more oppressive one), but the same type of analysis can be applied here, I think.If you have a job that is interesting, and makes a decent amount of money, and is not killing you, then retirement seems sort of silly. Why would you like to go play shuffleboard in that case? If, on the other hand, you are in a job that is not rewarding, or is physically dangerous, and live a life where stopping to play anything, even shuffleboard, would be an unimaginable luxury, well… retirement is the only time you’ll have to sit down. The opportunity to not have to work, especially if you have worked in a field that has been detrimental to your physical health, is a very powerful one.Now, I don’t think it was elegantly said, if the point were to provoke discussion. I don’t think that was the point, though; I think that was a "Hell yeah!" moment, more than anything.So… there’s merit on both sides. The system we have now is broken, and doesn’t take into account a lot of basic things. It should be fixed. But what counts as an obvious fix from that privileged standpoint is horribly problematic from another, and both of those voices need to be taken into account.(Of course, being the left leaning leftie I am, I like the idea of "from each according to [his/her] ability, to each according to [his/her] need" as a fix for our current system, but that’s a completely different story. Now excuse me while I go duck the incoming tomato storm.)
Hmm. I didn’t read it as an ad hominem attack, but more a teasing reminder from Kleinheider that where you’re situated when you make suggestions matters–that it’s easy enough to suggest we do away with the concept of retirement when your current job is one you wouldn’t mind having until you die.Add to that the good professor’s questions that seem to beg the question that we’re better off now than we were 50 years ago. Are we? By some measures, sure. But fifty years ago the average incarceration rate was 100 prisoners per 100,000 people. Right now there are 4,484 black men in prison for every 100,000 U.S. citizens.Is that progress?Are we worse off than our parents? In some ways, yes.
Of course perspective matters. But the assumption that this person has not at all reflected and considered his or her own situation or that others might be different and is then dismissed or even disagreed with because his or her viewpoint seems to benefit his or her own personal interest is just about as clear a definition of ad hominem that I can offer.I think that one could offer a question or even a challenge to the college professor with regard to manual labor or monotonous jobs. Await a response (which I imagine would have more to do with rights than wants), and continue the conversation. But just as situation matters, so to does tone. And thus Carter is responsible for his and how it is more likely to end dicussion or make it too personal or get people distracted from the issue at hand than respectful engagement would.I don’t think there’s anything wrong with your tone, Aunt B. I just was surprised that you didn’t hesitate some or add a caveat to your support for Klienhieder’s post.
On the REAL topic, which is the peeing thing, man, you wouldn’t believe how many Europeans get upset about this. Not just the Swedes, but the Germans too. When I was living over there, I asked people about this sometimes (okay, often), and hordes of German/Danish/Swedish women would tell me in no uncertain terms how disgusting it is when men pee standing up and that no one will be doing it in their house, thank you very much, because they have put up a SIGN. (And they all had). I think they worry about bad aim.
So the descendents of the Vikings, who raised ungoldly hell over all of northern Europe, now have a problem with a bit of dribbling on the seat? Man, they’ve really wussed out. And anatomically speaking, not that I’m into this or anything, but even in the shower, if involved in the act that I translated above from the original pig latin, wouldn’t it be hard (heh heh, hard) to have a stream going down. Seems like it would be shooting straight up in the air all over the place.Not that I’ve thought about it in great detail or anything.
Well, now you know why they were so pissed off. "Fuck you, we’re going to find a land where we can stand up to pee and if we have to burn down every church between here and Rome to do it, we will."
> you must have a care for the tender sensibilities of the cat. For if you don’t devote all of your time and energies to molding its behavior by restricting your own, what kind of role model are you?I do restrict my behavior to be a good role model. For instance, I don’t bite the heads off of mice and impale them on rows of little toothpick-pikes in the front porch. Does the cat follow my good example? No.Lee: Raise the seat.