Brittney’s asking all kinds of immigration related questions over at NiT and David Oatney’s hollering about how “The feds are supposed to enforce immigration law and protect us from foreign invasion, which this influx of illegal aliens certainly is.”
Y’all, nonsense like this makes me have to put my head down on my desk. Just for a minute, just until it clears.
America, from 1535 to 1821, this was the vice-royalty of New Spain. Please take a look and see just how much of the current United States was covered by this. Everyone who was living in this area at that time was, by definition, as a subject of Spain, Spanish. In fact, your family could have been sitting in St. Louis and been French, Spanish, French again, and then United-States-ian all without ever leaving your home.
My point is that, while people from Mexico can certainly be in this country illegally, calling them ‘foreigners’ seems to me to be so intellectually dishonest as to cause me a headache. That a man from Juarez and a man from Dubuque are from two different countries now is a fluke of history. These are not people who are foreign to us. These are people whose histories are entwined with ours and have been since 1492.
Also, yes, there are actual bad guys who mean folks harm coming over from Mexico illegally, but by and large, the folks who come here are unarmed civilians who are just looking for work and a better quality of life. Calling them a foreign invasion makes you look like some kind of histrionic reactionary who doesn’t actually understand what an invasion is.
Listen, I’m a bleeding heart liberal. I’m always going to stand with the downtrodden against the powerful*. The thing that bothers me about illegal immigration is that we, as a country, seem to want to put all of the blame on illegal immigrants. Let’s round them up and ship them off to detention camps in Louisiana. Let’s have the cops check them against a database every time they pop up on the radar of the police. Let’s continue to use language that makes it seem like illegal immigrants are dirty, disease-ridden vermin who are invading our country and ruining it.
And all this does is make it harder and harder for undocumented workers to receive anything like justice. As long as their employers know they’re here illegally, those employers own them. They can pay them whatever they like and do with them what they like, because, should they be found out, the unbearable cost of being separated from their families is on the workers, not on the businesses that hire them.
This level of immigration reform ought to be so damn easy. If you are here illegally, you should be given a chance to rectify that. Come forward, prove you’re contributing to society (either because you have a job or because you’re raising a family), get in the system, make restitution of some sort, pay some damn fines, and get right with the government.
And yet, our overwhelming desire for vengeance–How dare these folks sneak in here and steal our jobs?–prevents us from dealing compassionately with people who are here because we have jobs for them.
It should be on corporations to not hire illegal immigrants. If that’s the law, that’s the law. And if they can’t police themselves and if the feds won’t, the solution is not to turn around and punish the folks who just want a job.
My point is that we keep acting like these people, who work with us, who worship with us, who eat with us, who drink at our bars, whose kids go to school with our kids, are not like us, that they’re “foreign” and invasive. But they are us; they are here with us; they share history with us.
Fearing them as a horde is intellectually dishonest and doesn’t actually advance any discussion about immigration reform.
————
*I hope. Who knows? Maybe I’ll get a little power someday and embarrass myself with my rapid descent into corporatism.
“If you are here illegally, you should be given a chance to rectify that. Come forward, prove you’re contributing to society (either because you have a job or because you’re raising a family), get in the system, make restitution of some sort, pay some damn fines, and get right with the government.”
You do realise you are in agreement with George Bush on this don’t you? ;)
He first fell out of favor with the Republican base for proposing just this. I happen to agree with him, and you as well. I despise, despise, DESPISE the words invasion, and vermin and other offensive terms when discussing this subject.
Also, keep in mind that this bigotry seems to cross ideological lines. The paleoconservatives have plenty of labor union allies in their hatred of the ‘invaders’. It’s going to take level headed people from all sides to stop this nonsense.
I for one am getting tired of seeing everyone willing to barter their liberty in favour of trampling down the immigrants.
To favour a National ID card simply because some guy from Mexico City is washing dishes at your Olive Garden without paying his Federal taxes is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in a long while.
To favour a National ID card simply because some guy from Mexico City is washing dishes at your Olive Garden without paying his Federal taxes is the most ridiculous thing I’ve heard in a long while.
LOL! Kat, that is SO true!
I don’t understand why so much energy is being wasted on trying to squash one group of people in this country (a majority of whom are productive to the well-being of the society) where that energy could be used on solving much more crucial matters. This is the reason I tend to think of this issue as one of prejudice and, at the very core, hate of a particular ethnic group.
Doesn’t one need an invading power to have an invasion? Individuals or groups without national status are by definition incapable of invading anything.
(Well, if we’re talking about people, anyway. Plants and animals have other issues.)
Even if one does accept the premise that illegal immigrants ought be vigorously shooed from the country for whatever reason, calling it an invasion and/or treating it as such is patently silly.
calling it an invasion and/or treating it as such is patently silly.
Well, you’re talking about David Oatney, who is in the process of arguing with me about whether or not Nero was really and truly crazy.
So, whatever.
Look, I disagree with the people muttering about invasions, but I think I understand why they understand immigration that way. Especially around here, people are used to living in societies that are ethnically stable, and have been for a while. The idea that, yes, the ethnic groups already present interact with each other and influence each other’s cultures in certain ways is taken for granted. It’s taken for granted to such an extent that it isn’t even noticed any more. So when a new group comes in, in numbers large enough to have some cultural impact, there’s this panic because new interactions have to be worked out, and because the culture(s) is/are going to change. That’s not paranoia, that’s real. It is going to happen. The thing is that people don’t realize that they’re going to like the changes — things are going to be added, not subtracted. Sometimes these “invasion” people remind me of little kids who won’t eat new foods because they never tried them before.
Kat, what? Where?
*blinks* Nero Nero? Fiddle myth and all that?
Wait. What? You can’t be saying that and not provide a link to it.
It’s here. Although I have to take that back a bit, because I didn’t read his original thesis correctly.
He admits that Nero was crazy, but says that since his Crazyhood started AFTER he became emperor it is not germane to his (Oatney’s)current working theory, which is that the best leaders of the future are those whom the establishment declares “crazy”.
He’s on this kick whereby he believes that C***field (sorry, newscoma) is the next Andrew Jackson or something like that.
The thing is that people don’t realize that they’re going to like the changes — things are going to be added, not subtracted. Sometimes these “invasion” people remind me of little kids who won’t eat new foods because they never tried them before.
Maybe they’re all just afraid we’ll get ethnic hair.
I’m waiting for the apotheosis of George McGovern, then. And John Murtha. They’ve both been beaten up by the establishment.
You should be so lucky.
/preening
My two cents on this are eight months old now, but in a nutshell I agree that this topic brings out some real ugliness in people. There are legitimate concerns here about fairness and working standards, and businesses get put in impossible positions when they don’t want to racially profile but have no reliable way to check immigration status. It’s like prohibition and the drug trade… if there is a ready supply and a ready demand, trying to turn the spigot shut will always be ineffective. Responsible people will work to manage the issues rather than thinking they can legislate them away.
Hell, it’s enough to make one think that one side really doesn’t want a solution to this, so they can continue to flog the nativist fervor for their own political ends…..
Nah.
they can continue to flog the nativist fervor for their own political ends…..
You know that NEVER happens around here.
Maybe the problem is the border itself. An arbitrary line in the earth is being used to facilitate the exploitation of working people on both sides. The profits are expected to move freely across that arbitrary line, but the people are expected to stay put? Not realistic, as many have already pointed out.
The questions for me, then, are:
Do we want to keep buying into the b.s. system of laws that maintains this fiction?
Do we as a species have the maturity to face the underlying issues of resource distribution and equity?
From what I’ve seen so far, the answers are yes and no. Our betters will keep flogging this and other chimerical issues until the republic collapses under the pressure of its own belligerent stupidity.
I think this is a live issue over here in the UK as well – there is the very real trap that someone can come over from Poland completely legally (as a new member of the Mega-Europe) But has no access to the National Health Service or any of our other social securities until they can prove they’ve been here for 6/9 months – why would they want to work legally and pay taxes without getting any support from the government?
Borders are there to keep money within them and as soon as governments see money going out a certain way, then if they can’t see some coming back – they want to plug the whole – sometimes to the wilful harm of the families it was heading towards…
Pingback: Immigration With A Human Touch — The Seminal :: Independent Media and Politics