A One-Girl Boycott of WKRN

Well, that’s it.  It’s been fun, WKRN, but I’m quitting you.  I’ll still read and link to Kleinheider, because I suspect you hate and fear him, but I am done with the rest of you.  Done with your website, done with your blogs, done with your news, and done with your shitty fall line-up.

I know it will have no effect on your bottom line and I know you could care less.  It’s just a symbolic gesture.

But symbolic gestures mean something.  If I could buy a billboard across the street from your studios and take a picture of myself making a one-fingered symbolic gesture in your direction, I would.

I don’t have that kind of money, though, so I have to make this one instead.

You may wonder what’s brought us to this point.

It’s the dog thing, really.

I mean, please, you’ve muzzled Kleinheider; you’ve neutered Nashville is Talking; and all out of fear of “offending people” or causing controversy.

But that Grantham person wants to write the most hysterical pearl-clutching crap about dogs–crap that directly contradicts your very own story–stuff that is offensive to me and other dog owners and people in general who know anything about dogs, and that’s just fine, apparently.

Well, it’s not fine with me.

You could be using the blogs to expand the story, to give your viewers more information, and actual facts.  You could be helping them to make informed decisions about the effectiveness of breed bans and you could be doing work that would, potentially, save dogs’ lives.

And that’s what really, really pisses me off.  In all of the blogging controversies you’ve weathered, there have been no lives at stake.

But with this one?  There is.  You’ve got a bunch of people who are putting other people in harm’s way because they don’t do right by their dogs.  You’ve got dogs in harm’s way because people don’t do right by their dogs.  And your station is seemingly on a crusade to help breed banners get rid of all ‘pitbull type dogs’ whatever that means.

Well, fine.

Do what you must.

And I’ll do what I must.

But I’ll be doing it without you.

134 thoughts on “A One-Girl Boycott of WKRN

  1. It took me for ever to find the post you are talking about. I think
    you meant this post?

    http://www.news2wkrn.com/newsextra/?p=108

    Now that I’ve read it, I can see why you never quoted it or linked to it: because it’s no where near the “hysterical pearl-clutching crap” you claim it is. It’s pure reporting with zero opinion. I love pit-bulls, too, but your “one girl boycott of WKRN” is nothing more than tin-foil-hat-wearing lunacy.

  2. Hey, I thought “Pushing Daisies” was pretty good…

    But that Grantham person wants to write the most hysterical pearl-clutching crap about dogs–crap that directly contradicts your very own story–stuff that is offensive to me and other dog owners and people in general who know anything about dogs, and that’s just fine, apparently.

    Doesn’t Grantham seem to have a history of throwing dogs under the bus (as it were) in an attempt to drum up controversy?

    It sort of seems to me that pit bulls are his go-to guys whenever he wants to be noticed.

    “Hey! my stats are low! Since I can’t post a Paris Hilton Crotch Shot, I think I’ll poke at the pit-bull community.”

    Of course, that makes the fact that he is bound and determined to post anti-pit bull invective not any easier, I’m sure.

  3. Allison,

    It helps to know the history. Grantham has been bringing up / slagging off pitbulls ever since he showed up back in Nashville from Parts Unknown.

    As for the article, it IS pearl-clutching in the most passive-aggressive way possible.

    Change the words “pit bull” to “black man” and you’ll see what I mean.

  4. Nice try, Allison, but “Trained to kill” is indeed a bit of editorializing and a bit of fear-mongering. Notice how that Grantham person also includes “how communities across the nation are coping with vicious pit bull attacks” in his round-up.

    Vicious is indeed a bit of editorializing.

    And, most importantly, the original story on WKRN’s own website is about a bunch of dogs that were used for fighting other dogs, but, as the story itself asserts, the dogs were not aggressive towards humans.

    That Grantham person putting that story with the story of a “pit bull” (again, whatever that means) that was aggressive towards a person and then lumping both stories under more proof of how vicious the dogs are is intellectually dishonest and indeed editorializing.

  5. Well, I would question how many of the cited stories refer to bonafide “pit bulls,” as an actual breed. I haven’t read them, so I don’t know.

    “Knox County Police had to shoot a dangerous pit bull 7 times when it attacked them.” – Police had to shoot a dog dog seven times? That might be an example of what prompted B to write this post.

  6. I’m glad Allison linked to the post; otherwise I never would have found it. I never go to the WKRN website any more.

    Indeed, turning a story of vicious animal abuse (the actual news story was quite kind to the dogs in question, by the way–noting that they’re still friendly despite what they’ve gone through) into a story about pit bull attacks is not just ignorant, it’s irresponsible. That’s “journalism” at it’s absolute worst. I think Christian needs an editor to avoid logical fallacies. Or needs to take a Journalism 101 class if he’s going to post on a news site.

  7. But…but, it appears that he’s just doing a “round-up” kind of post on pit bulls.

    I mean…did you see the update? 9 of these dogs are going to be euthanized.

    It’s actually very newsworthy. Very sad.

  8. Ginger, that’s the point. He took a story about animal abuse and turned it into a story about “dangerous pit bulls.” He committed a logical fallacy. Which is poor journalism, regardless of what you think about the situation.

    (Forgive me if I’m misinterpreting your assumed defense of his post).

  9. What Lesley said. I’m not saying that it’s not newsworthy that they found nine dogs used in fighting or that they believe there are other fighting rings in town (I don’t doubt it, considering the money that I’ve been offered for Mrs. Wigglebottom) that are very lucrative for participants or that they have to put those dogs down.

    But to move from that into a collection of stories about how vicious pitbulls are is intellectually dishonest. Dog fighting is an enormous problem. He couldn’t find twenty stories about dog fighting?

    No, because he’s got an agenda.

  10. it appears that he’s just doing a “round-up” kind of post on pit bulls.

    There’s a difference between a round-up of opinion stories–like on a blog–and a biased sampling in a news story.

    Let’s go back to the “black man” example I used earlier.

    Say one guy robs a convenience store. He happens to be black.

    His race is not on trial, his race did not commit the crime.

    But if you
    a) exaggerate the portrayal of the crime with his race as the key componant
    and
    b) do a cherry-picked sampling of news stories about black people committing violent crime

    you turn a story about the robbery into a referendum on The Dangerous Black Man Who Is A Threat To Our Peace.

    By presenting a “round-up”, you turn your journalistic story into an editorial on a certain topic.

  11. eh, I hear ya…I just didn’t see it as a competition between the two points (victimized vs. victimizers)…

    I didn’t perceive a bit of controversy in it until you pointed it out.

  12. I have found Grantham’s over all style to be tabloid and sensationalist across most all topics. I have no interest in that kind of reporting and have ceased to read anything at WKRN News extra. I had really hoped that it would be an online version of the WKRN live news, but instead it appears to be mainly Grantham’s idea of the news with snarky headlines and slanted content. WKRN News Extra does not reflect the class or editorial trust of Anne Holt, Bob Mueller, Neil Orne or many of the other on air personalities.

    Another missed opportunity for an online audience for WKRN.

  13. “Doesn’t Grantham seem to have a history of throwing dogs under the bus (as it were) in an attempt to drum up controversy?

    It sort of seems to me that pit bulls are his go-to guys whenever he wants to be noticed.

    “Hey! my stats are low! Since I can’t post a Paris Hilton Crotch Shot, I think I’ll poke at the pit-bull community.”

    That is called an Ad hominem argument. Did the Grantham make up the story? No. Unless you’re claiming that Grantham went out and chain the dogs up and planted dog fighting paraphernalia, I’m not sure how you can even make such claims.

  14. Allison, where did anyone claim that he made up the story? The lines you just quoted indicate a perception that he highlights stories to do with “pit bulls” whenever he wants to draw attention, given his particular history of doing so, not that the stories are made up.

  15. “It helps to know the history. Grantham has been bringing up / slagging off pitbulls ever since he showed up back in Nashville from Parts Unknown.

    As for the article, it IS pearl-clutching in the most passive-aggressive way possible.

    Change the words “pit bull” to “black man” and you’ll see what I mean.”

    So you think Michael Vic was just misunderstood? That dog fighting is just something made up by the mainstream media?

    Your example might hold some water if it made any sense. Are black men enslaved by men and made to fight one another? Are they much stronger and more agile that white people?

    Do me a favor, go to Google and type in Chihuahua mauling…tell me how many hits do you get? Do you have to use a break stick to get a Lab off another dog? You’re just not playing with a full 52 if you think that pits aren’t a natural fighter. If you want a comparison, compare them to guns. A BB gun can put your eye out, and can kill you if placed in the right spot… but what would you rather be shot at with… a shotgun or a bb gun? Guns don’t kill people on their own..their owners do…

    Same thing applies here.

  16. “Allison, where did anyone claim that he made up the story? The lines you just quoted indicate a perception that he highlights stories to do with “pit bulls” whenever he wants to draw attention, given his particular history of doing so, not that the stories are made up.”

    Um…so nine pits are taken in by police all the time? Dog fighting paraphernalia is found all the time? If the police were called and the story is true…it’s news.

    I know that pains you, but it’s a fact.

  17. Allison, maybe you skipped the day in which the actual meaning of ad hominem was discussed.

    Let’s take this slowly.

    The WKRN “story” is about vicious humans attacking dogs. Grantham’s piece inveighs about vicious dogs attacking humans. You do see how these things differ, do you not? As Grantham’s piece inverts and subverts the message of the original, it can be said to be his own invention. Evidence has been provided to suggest that he substantially deviated from the tone, topic, and content of the first piece. While we may disagree about the evidence, there is something there to be debated beyond “Grantham is a ponderous asshole who can’t write his way out of a wet paper bag.” Therefore, this isn’t an ad hominem argument.

    “Vicious” is an adjective of opinion, thus the charge of editorializing is actually supported. If a charge is supported with evidence, again, it is not something like “Grantham lacks the moral character and critical accumen to address so much as a kindergarten civics class” and so is not ad hominem.

    Grantham does have a history of anti-pit bull writing, as a little research on your part can demonstrate. Thus, because the statements that he “throws pit bulls under the bus” and “pit bulls are his go-to guys” are supported with evidence (which you may disagree with — see “attribution of motivation”), it is not ad hominem. On the other hand, “If Grantham’s brain were a car radio, you couldn’t hear him in the back seat” — that would be ad hominem argument, as it has no substance and no intention beyond defaming him personally.

    “Hey, my stats are low” — this is also a form of “attributing motivation.” It is perhaps ungenerous in its assumption, but it is not, strictly speaking, ad hominem.

  18. Have I mentioned lately that I love you, bridgett? Consider yourself showered with chocolates, grading assistants, and miraculous chunks of free time. *grins*

  19. “Um…so nine pits are taken in by police all the time? Dog fighting paraphernalia is found all the time? If the police were called and the story is true…it’s news.” – Allison, again, you have completely missed the point. No one is arguing that those stories didn’t happen. The discussion is about Christian’s presentation of the stories and his general approach.

  20. Ok, I don’t have a dog in this fight, because truthfully I don’t know where I am with respect to “lumping all pit bulls into the same category” habit. There are dangerous dogs out there, and while I think any dog has the potential to be dangerous, pits and other similar breeds seem to reach a point where their eyes roll back and then nothing short of a bullet is going to pry them loose, more quickly than other more common house pets. I blame the owners more than any breed, but a 357 magnum will do more damage than a .22 if mishandled.

    As much as WKRN tried to cover the immigration issue fairly, (which I was grateful for) they still felt compelled to sensationalize the issue, and insisted on having the same hacks chime in (think Steve Gill) rather than interview people who have some knowledge and experience with the issue.

    Yet, we somehow get more riled up about misunderstood dogs. BTW, that is understandable, I too own pets and I believe we have to stand up for animals since they cannot do it for themselves, but it is curious to me how so many can turn a blind eye or have a cold heart with respect to the treatment of people who have no paperwork, but will lay down in front of a train for animal rights.

  21. Pingback: SayUncle » I noticed

  22. *it is curious to me how so many can turn a blind eye or have a cold heart with respect to the treatment of people who have no paperwork, but will lay down in front of a train for animal rights*

    It’s not that curious to me. I am an advocate for animal rights because animals are helpless in the face of humans. Animals have never once fucked me over. Animals have no voice.

    There are lots of reasons to advocate for animal welfare while not putting as much effort into human welfare. For me it’s because, frankly, people suck.

  23. And this is not to say that I do not advocate for human rights. I do. I also donate to charities that benefit people alongside the money I send to DogsDeserveBetter. You can be outspoken about animal rights while also advocating for human rights. I just find it curious that people bring up the two things as if they are mutually exclusive. I find it akin to the, “You don’t like dog fighting? Well, abortion is worse. Where is your outrage on that?” They are two separate issues and one can be both against dog fighting and abortion. I’m not clear on why people want to frame debates in this way.

  24. Brittney, I’ve gotta say that I found it rather odd that Aunt B. would go so far as to post a “one girl boycott of WKRN” over the way a news story on pit bulls was treated rather than over the way you, as a person and a friend, was publicly treated by them upon your leaving there. I would think that would be much more worthy of a boycott.

    I understand activism, I truly get that. What I don’t understand is outrage over something here that seems so trivial. I mean…calling it “pulling the pit bull card”…like that’s something to pull?

    There is obviously a lot of backstory here (with regards to the need to defend pit bulls so passionately) that many of us do not know about. It just seems off-kilter a little bit.

  25. I want to add that I’d really be interested in hearing your reasoning, and if that means links to back posts that would be cool…I just am very interested in understanding why this is such a hot button with you.

  26. Ginger,
    I don’t know if I can speak for B directly but…

    B (and myself) own bullie breeds. Loving, sweet, couch-warming, waggily butt, goofball dogs that some folks think of as brutal baby killers. I know it chaps me when folks talk about wanting to kill my dog or ban my dog. It made me VERY upset when someone broke into my home and attempted to take my dog so they could use her for fighting purposes. It makes me mad that bad people do horrible things to good dogs. It makes me mad that good dogs are mistreated. It makes me mad that people take dogs who are not bred for human aggression, and turn them ugly. It makes me mad when people take the story of poor, people-friendly dogs who have been mistreated in a dogfighting operation and try to link that up with dog attacks.

    It makes me mad that I feel the need to hide my dog lest some idiot takes a notion to steal her or shoot her.

    It makes me mad that people don’t get why this makes me mad.

  27. *Brittney, I’ve gotta say that I found it rather odd that Aunt B. would go so far as to post a “one girl boycott of WKRN” over the way a news story on pit bulls was treated rather than over the way you, as a person and a friend, was publicly treated by them upon your leaving there.*

    While I will never, ever forget the outpouring of support from my Nashville blogger friends after my leaving the station (for which I have not sufficiently thanked most of them, especially Lynnster), I did not feel that management at the station owed me anything. I walked out on them. I gave them no notice. I quite effective immediately. Privately, they were VERY generous to me, even giving me two weeks pay as if I had given them notice. That money helped me not go broke. Matthew Zelkind did that for me, and I will be forever grateful.

    I did not expect management to say anything publicly about my departure. I am disappointed in some of the directions they have taken since I left, but I don’t feel like they did me wrong in any way. You have to remember that both Gwen and Matthew had been there mere weeks when I left. They barely knew me–Matthew didn’t at all. Any sort of statement from them regarding my departure would have been disingenuous, as they didn’t have time to create any genuine feelings about me.

  28. I just am very interested in understanding why this is such a hot button with you.

    B. has a “pit bull”. Mrs. W. is in many ways her child. She loves that dog.

    I gotta tell you that if I had a child who was, say, a redhead, and much of society decided that RedHeaded Children should be illegal and must all be destroyed that I would be seriously pissed off to the point of no return.

    I get why B. is passionate about the pit bull thing to begin with.

    And in this circumstance where you have a certain individual who has admitted that he DOESN’T REALLY CARE but just brings up pit bulls to start controversy that makes it even worse.

    Again, it’d be like “hey, I really like red-headed children, but I like attention MORE so I’m going to write a bunch of screedery against redheads.”

  29. The Editor, It makes me mad, too. If I had a sweet dog like Mrs. Wigglebottom, I would be unable to rent in San Francisco. Almost all landlords discriminate against “aggro breeds.” Which sucks.

  30. . Almost all landlords discriminate against “aggro breeds.”

    What on earth is an “aggro breed”? I’ve never heard that term before…

    Is it just any dog which could be classified as a “pit” or is it an umbrella term including German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Dobermans and any other dog commonly trained by some people as attack dogs?

  31. Brittney, thanks for sharing your thoughts on that. There were many of us who felt like there should have been some kind of public post thanking you for all that you had done to get NiT off the ground and turned it into such a vital forum for Nashville.

    Knowing that you were not hurt in that process is SO good to know.

    The Editor: I appreciate your comment on why this is so important to you and Aunt B. I can definitely understand how it would infuriate you if there are those who would try to steal, kill, or ban your dog. Unfortunately, it *seems* as if that breed of dog is the most volatile. Why, I don’t know…or is it just a reputation?

  32. *What on earth is an “aggro breed”? I’ve never heard that term before…*

    Me, either, until the west coast house hunt. Seems like an easy out for the landlord. I think they mainly mean “pits,” in all their varied forms.

  33. Brittney, You know the unfair thing is that so much of the agitation over “aggro dogs” in San Francisco came out of the case where the dogs killed that woman. The dogs weren’t bullie breeds at all–they were presa canarios.

    Another unfair practice is that a lot of insurance companies wont give you home owner’s insurance if they know you have a bullie dog.

    You are going to have so much fun in San Francisco!

  34. Unfortunately, our vet marked Cooper down on his paperwork as “part pit.” Crazy, and not even close to accurate. I hope it doesn’t prevent us from renting somewhere. I certainly won’t be including it on the pets’ resumes. CAN YOU BELIEVE I HAVE TO WRITE UP RESUMES FOR MY MUTTS?

  35. Unfortunately, it *seems* as if that breed of dog is the most volatile. Why, I don’t know…or is it just a reputatio

    …and NOW it becomes clear why stories like Grantham’s are a problem.

    Propaganda is often successful in spite of people’s best efforts.

  36. Fair enough, Kat…but why is it the predominant breed you hear of attacking people, all over the country? (Not just here…everywhere)…

    What’s the deal?

  37. “aggro breed” sounds to me like another, possibly regionally specific, way to say “politically incorrect dog”. i doubt there’s any connection between “aggro breed” and canine reality; it sounds more like the sort of classification that gets generated by sensationalist headlines and moral panic.

    next to come up on the “dangerous dog” lists: large herding and hunting dogs down the lines of rhodesian ridgebacks, malinois, the various swiss mountain dogs, and similar-sized dogs of high energy levels. basically any dog capable of doing the job of a guard dog is at risk of becoming politically incorrect, because those breeds are also capable of scaring the witless.

    strangest entry i’ve ever seen on anybody’s list of “dangerous dogs”: siberian huskies. i own two, the breed certainly has backdraws, but… dangerous? no.

  38. The dogs I have heard of that have the reputation of attacking people are Pit Bulls and Dobermans. Chows also are known to be vicious. I had a Chow growing up, and he was fine with us, but an amazing watch dog.

  39. Ginger, for starters, I don’t know how much more public I could have been in my defense of Brittney and the raw deal she got. And for it, I got ridiculed at a lot of progressive blogs, by a lot of folks I read and respected. It wasn’t the end of the world or anything, of course, but it also was not fun.

    But I also thought that, from the perspective of the new folks at WKRN, that they were doing the best they could in a difficult situation when they had just started. I felt like the fair thing to do was to give them a cautious benefit of the doubt while they found their legs and tried to find a way to do the whole blogging thing in a way that they were comfortable with.

    And, as I said publicly, I kind of liked William’s blogging, if only because it provided a balance to Kleinheider and it’s fun to have strong liberal voices out there riling people up.

    I also saw peoples’ point–that what William was doing is not what folks wanted from Nashville is Talking. And I respect that.

    Again, I wasn’t looking for something to fill Brittney’s space in the blogosphere because I expect Brittney to occupy her own space, no matter where it is she occupies it and she can always count on my support when she does it.

    Brittney (and Coble, to bring up the other person I feel this way about) can be prickly and I don’t always agree with what they do or how they do it. But I have their backs as much as I can and I won’t take my disagreements with them public.

    Why?

    Because I could not do this how I do this if not for their influence and support. And because I’ve seen folks go after them for no other reason than that those folks seem to enjoy seeing them flounder.

    So, it distresses me to think that someone could look at my finally having it with that Grantham person’s treatment of the pit bull issue and treat it as a referendum on my loyalty to Brittney.

    Maybe because it goes back, in part, to what Brittney said in this thread. I assume that Brittney can take care of herself. Mrs. Wigglebottom, however, cannot.

    And what that Grantham is doing is advocating for a “solution” to the pit bull “problem.” And the kind of solution he’s advocating for is a breed ban. That’s his argument and has always been his argument.

    Well, my dog is seven years old. She has a life expectancy of ten to twelve. Considering that she’s in good health, I imagine we’re only just over halfway through her life. If Nashville were to enact a breed ban, I could lose my apartment. It could make it difficult for me to get home-owner’s insurance. We’d be under aggressive police surveillance. Depending on the type of ban enacted, I would be faced with the choice of either moving or having Mrs. Wigglebottom put down.

    I can’t afford to move.

    That’s why this gets me so riled up. That Grantham is now advocating and regularly advocates a position that pretty directly leads to the death of my dog.

    The other thing, as I’ve said many times here, is that “pit bulls” seem more aggressive than other dogs for a very good reason. Other dog bites are reported by breed. Pit bulls are not just a breed of dog, it’s a grouping of dogs. You’re counting the American Pit Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier, the American Bull Dog, the Staffordshire Terrier, the Bull Terrier, and any dog that is a medium terrier mix (note Brittney’s experience) towards that number. If you were to take the number of “pit bull” bites and divide it among all the dogs in the pit bull category, you’d see that the incidents of bites per breed is comparable to other dogs that size–German Shepherds, Rotts, Chows, etc.

    As Say Uncle has noted many many times, the commonality in most dog attacks is not the breed of the dog but the fact that the dog is male and intact.

    Again, “pit bull” is not (just) a breed. It’s a type.

  40. Yea, Brittney, I wasn’t really wanting to frame the debate that way, but really, I think there is merit in asking why people get so worked up about what amounts to bad PR for a particular type of animal, when its compared to other relevant issues of the day. I’m aware that one doesn’t preclude you from being involved in the other, and you do a good job of advocating on behalf of both. But I just have to admit it sometimes makes me a little squeamish, even if it “shouldn’t.”

    BTW, I’m excited for the new chapter in your life. Fun!

  41. Ginger, the deal is basically a low-level moral panic; pits are in the news because newsmedia have learned that pitbull-related headlines manage to sell “dog bites man” stories even if the man didn’t bite back.

    as a former pitbull owner who likes the breed, this really ticks me off. i sometimes make a game of hunting down “pitbull attack” news items and trying to figure out, in each case, if the dog in question actually had any pitbull blood in it. frustratingly often, that is not in fact the case. a “pitbull attack” headline in many papers these days is nothing more than a way to jazz up and sensationalize an otherwise unremarkable “feral and/or terrorized dog lashes out” story.

    partly, too, dogfighting rings are at blame. they do like to abuse this breed seemingly more than any other. i don’t really care to know why, to be honest. i do know that any dog subjected to pit fighting “training” would turn out vicious; that’s rather the point, as i understand it.

  42. …or is it just a reputation?

    Ginger,
    There is really a long answer to this, and I’m going to have to truncate a lot of it.

    It used to be that bullie breeds were thought of as the All American family dog. The different breeds are all known for their loyalty, friendliness, intelligence, and gentleness with children. A lot of that changed for a lot of reasons. First, when dogfighting laws came into being, it turned dogfighting into a criminal practice. There isn’t a lot of over site when you are breaking the law–not that I would return to the days when dogfighting was legal. So folks who might have had a couple of family dogs who were also fighting dogs went underground with it. Hiding dogs in basements. Chaining them or kenneling them in the woods. Over time, the thought process on how you treat your dog(s) changes. They aren’t pets but a commodity–an illegal commodity.

    It used to be (especially when I was younger) that Rotties and Dobies were the big bad status dogs of choice: especially when it came to folks with a more criminal element about them. When I was a kid, the talk was all about how Rotties and Dobies were crazy, baby killers, etc. There were a lot of breed bans and legislation on those dogs way back when. Then, suddenly, all eyes were turned to the bullie breeds as a replacement.

    Ownership of bullie breeds is quite high among the type of people who are most likely to mistreat the dog and work against its breed type. There is a lot of mythos that folks buy into about the breed that simply isn’t true–locking jaws, stronger bites, aggression. Bullie breeds in general aren’t BIG, MEAN dogs. So, people began cross-breeding bullies with the more aggressive mastiff breeds for size, color, and temperament that is in direct opposition to what an APBT or Staffie or Am. Bulldog is meant to be.

    One reason for the seemingly high statistic of attacks is that there are far more bullie breeds (or bastardizations of the breeds) out there than there used to be, and far more of those dogs are owned by irresponsible owners.

    So yes, the dogs are getting a bad rep. And it’s really sad. I don’t want to see what happened in Denver happen here. Cops were busting into homes and taking dogs away–the law was so vague, your dog just had to be identified as one that “looked like” a pit bull. That was it.

  43. Oh, god, please let’s not talk about the Denver cops busting into homes and confiscating dogs. If that happened to me, it might break me.

  44. *One reason for the seemingly high statistic of attacks is that there are far more bullie breeds (or bastardizations of the breeds) out there than there used to be, and far more of those dogs are owned by irresponsible owners.*

    Yep, that’s pretty much it in a nutshell. The sad thing is when caring, responsible individuals like Aunt B. step in to help these defenseless animals they are treated just like the assholes who are truly at fault.

  45. Nomen and Brittney, exactly. And the thing is that, if we don’t figure out how to stop people from treating dogs like shit, all the breed bans in the world aren’t going to help.

    They’ll just find other dogs to hurt. All terriers are aggressive. It wouldn’t be that hard to train Airdales to fight each other. Or maybe they’ll change what amuses them from one on one dog fighting to setting packs of dogs on defenseless creatures and they’ll get packs of large hounds and then we’ll all have to worry if the person with three coonhounds is just a hunter or part of some nefarious dog-fighting ring and, if those dogs got loose, would come after us and take us down.

  46. So, it distresses me to think that someone could look at my finally having it with that Grantham person’s treatment of the pit bull issue and treat it as a referendum on my loyalty to Brittney.

    I wasn’t questioning your loyalty to Brittney. I was being honest in my feelings on this and stating that it was peculiar to me that this is the thing that finally took you over the edge with WKRN. The way you all have explained that entire debacle has given much clarity. And it is appreciated.

    Please remember that not all of your readers know the “inside story” and so sometimes the appearance of how you are approaching a topic is different than what the reality is. Also, not everybody gets to read every single post everyday. So, sometimes, if you want to educate your readers on an issue that is important to you, it may be necessary to backtrack. I’m sorry if I have caused you to do that today, but know that you have totally taught me about something today that I knew very little about.

    I feel the need right now to shout, “I’m on your side!”

    That’s why this gets me so riled up.

    Thanks for spelling it out…it makes perfect sense now.

  47. Fair enough, Kat…but why is it the predominant breed you hear of attacking people, all over the country? (Not just here…everywhere)…
    What’s the deal?

    Even going beyond the things The Editor brings up, Ginger, there’s the issue of press. Like Nomen says, there are things that sell, and pit bulls being violent is definitely one of those things. But the other thing is just… that’s kind of the way the story has been written.

    Think about it this way – if you were to only go by what you generally hear (say, TV, radio, and water cooler conversation; nothing you have to go out of your way to find), you would think that pretty much only brown people committed crimes (unless that crime could be reported to the SEC or involved a celebutante). That’s the way the narrative has been written.

    Why are the only illegal immigrants you hear about people from south of us (and some specific parts of Asia)? People come here in various states of undocumented-ness from Europe, Asia (the bits we’re friendly with, anyway), and the more affluent parts of Africa all the time. Those people let their papers lapse or miss a filing date or just don’t bother to write things up too. But you don’t hear about them.

    And so on and so forth.

    Yes, of course, there are some statistical trends being reported in there, and that’s not to be discounted. Brown people are more likely to be poor and more likely to be chased/prosecuted/convicted of crimes than white people. People coming from Mexico, Central or South America have more or less direct land routes available to them where other people have to at least get on a boat, which makes it slightly harder to do. As was mentioned on the other thread, big dogs are capable of doing more damage than smaller dogs, even if they don’t mean to.

    These things all lend themselves to the perceptions that I mentioned above. But they don’t mean that any of these populations are inherently worse than the ones that don’t get talked about. Just because ‘everyone knows’ something doesn’t mean that the causality is right, or even that the frequency is anywhere close to correct. A lot of it is just circumstance and social structure (of course breeds that have had a lot of people use them badly and train them to be vicious are going to have a higher incidence of vicious behavior than breeds which haven’t been so commonly targeted).

  48. Isn’t it curious that not a single one of you has quoted a single sentence from this post by Grantham? Can any of you quote a single sentence and explain what is so offensive? Apparently the original work by Gratham isn’t repugnant enough for Kat, so she asks us to pretend Grantham is actually talking about a “black man.” What an outrageous attempt to construct a strawman.

  49. Apparently the original work by Gratham isn’t repugnant enough for Kat, so she asks us to pretend Grantham is actually talking about a “black man.” What an outrageous attempt to construct a strawman.

    If I never again hear the word “strawman” before I die, I just might die happy.

    sn’t it curious that not a single one of you has quoted a single sentence from this post by Grantham?

    Here are just a few stories over the past week illustrating how communities across the nation are coping with vicious pit bull attacks.

    What is so offensive about that—even though we’ve already addressed it–is that he

    1. Cherry-picks news stories about various incidents involving dogs classified as “pit bulls”

    2. Uses the adjective “vicious” ambiguously in such a way that it could either mean the attacks are vicious or that the dogs are vicious.

    3. Starts off with the phrase “here are just a few”, from which a reader is likely to infer that there are more–perhaps many more–not highlighted.

    And then you get people with reactions like Ginger’s who say “these dogs seem to be more violent than other dogs.” Those reactions are understandable given the type of propaganda on this subject.

    The exact type of propaganda completely embodied in that one sentence by Grantham.

  50. Sarcastro! I love you. Allison, folks have already quoted that Grantham and explained to you what a toad’s fart he is. At this point, you’re just proving to people that you have an unwarranted fondness for Grantham and that you can’t read. I imagine the latter serves the perpetuation of the former well.

  51. Allison:

    Metro Animal control have uncovered what they say is a dog fighting ring and hope to make arrests in the next few days. … Last week, Knox County Police had to shoot a dangerous pit bull 7 times when it attacked them. … Here are just a few stories over the past week illustrating how communities across the nation are coping with vicious pit bull attacks.

    Quoted.

    Breaking up a local dogfighting ring and ” vicious pit bull attacks” around the country are two entirely, unrelated entities. It is offensive that he relates the two. It is offensive that he is trying stir up controversy. It is particularly offensive to me because he wants to ban the breed.

    It is offensive that several people have quoted him here already and you continue to ask for more.

  52. I’m mostly confused why this is a big deal. Aunt B isn’t calling for his head, or organizing other people to boycott WKRN, or mailing him angry badgers… she expressed her dislike of his writing (and her subsequent decision to absent herself from situations in which she might be subjected to it) in her own space, on her own time.

    Why do you care?

  53. It is offensive that several people have quoted him here already and you continue to ask for more.

    Especially since the article isn’t that long in the first place and we’ve already quoted the entirety of it in one form or another throughout the discussion. With the award for best fisking, of course, going to bridgett–way early in the game.

  54. …or mailing him angry badgers

    Is there a company that provides such a service?
    That would come in handy…
    Nothing says, “Up yours!” like an angry badger.

  55. I have been bit twice. Once from a German Shepherd, the other time by a tiny, vicious poodle.
    Raised by angry badgers, maybe? Those two dogs sucked.
    Squirrel Queen had a bull terrier. Nicest dog I’ve ever had the pleasure of knowing. She still grieves that dog and she’s been gone for almost 16 years.

    I don’t know. I can’t have children. I have four dogs. I love them like they were mine.
    So, if someone goes rattling on about Miss Mabel, who is a cardigan corgi, is doing bad things and that all cardigan corgis must be evil, I’m going to be pissed as well.
    Just saying.

  56. I (ahem) have no dog in this fight, as a non-dog owner. And if I did own a dog it would be a spaniel, and they’re too cute for anyone to be scared of them at any time. But I will say that the dogs that scare me the most (unless I know them well) are boxers, dobermans, and collies. Boxers because bad temper is a characteristic of the breed, and it is often impossilbe to train even well loved and gently treated boxers not to bite. Dobermans and collies because they have been overbred (for narrow heads) to the point where a characteristic of both breeds is to suddenly go crazy with no warning and attack whoever is around. Now, I’ve seen “pit bull types” of dogs that scared me, too, but that was mostly from the context in which I saw them. When a heavily muscled, chained, and tattooed guy walks past me with a dog like that on a choke chain, growling the whole time (the dog, usually, but sometims the guy), I do figure it’s bad news. But I’ve known too many happy, frisky pit bull types to be concerned about them as a group.

  57. I was bitten once by an English Mastiff. It was the best thing that ever happened to that poor dog. He was old and sick and not very well cared for. He was in pain, which is why he bit me. Soon after that his owner did the right thing and had him put to sleep. Still, those dogs scare the shit out of me to this day.

  58. I used to be afraid of most large breed dogs–thanks to a neighbour’s perpetually angry German Shepherd. (Note to people: Dogs are pack animals. They are not meant to live outside all the time.)

    Nowdays I tend to be more afraid of whichever dog is the most popular breed at the time. Right now it’s Golden Retrievers and pugs.

    Any time a dog is popular the breedlines get hazy and the dogs invariably become stupid, crazy or sick. That’s not a good combination.

    Really, though, I’m most afraid of dogs which are not socialised–regardless of breed.

  59. (Note to people: Dogs are pack animals. They are not meant to live outside all the time.)

    What does being a pack animal have to do with them living inside or out? Doesn’t that mean that they are happier if they are with another dog or dogs?

    Also, a question I had that got lost in the shuffle is are there other breeds that insurance companies flag? Do you have to specify the breed of dog you have when you sign an apartment lease??

    Just asking because I’m curious…

  60. What does being a pack animal have to do with them living inside or out? Doesn’t that mean that they are happier if they are with another dog or dogs?

    A dog sees his family–human and dog–as his pack. Knowing that is an essential part of dog training. If a dog sees his family as his pack and then is kept separate from that pack, he will become lonely, despondent and possibly enraged.

    Humans are also pack animals, which is part of why the historical bond between man and dog has proven so mutually beneficial for both breeds.

    Also, a question I had that got lost in the shuffle is are there other breeds that insurance companies flag?

    a)”pit bull” is not a breed.
    b) I’ve never seen breed exclusions in any insurance policy, but I have seen type exclusions (i.e. Working Dogs) and size exclusions (i.e. under 50lbs). We are owned by a working dog, and as such are excluded from most apartments here in Nashville.

    Do you have to specify the breed of dog you have when you sign an apartment lease??

    That depends entirely on the apartment in question. Most at least ask you to submit photographs and a basic sheet of information from the veternarian. Some ask you to–as BG mentioned–write a resume for the dog which details where you got the dog, if the dog has any history of violence and references to other apartments where you lived with the dog. They do that to check with the previous landlords about any property damage the animal may have caused.

  61. Multiple dogs outside is not really a problem, so long as they aren’t chained and get plenty of exercise.

    Agreed. If there are multiple dogs outside, they understand that the “pack rule” includes dogs area=outside, much like our inside dogs understand that the “pack rule” means dogs stay off the living room sofa and chair.

    If there are multiple dogs kept outside, they don’t suffer from lack of socialisation.

  62. Wow…that explains why my ex-dog *hated* being in our fenced in yard and kept everybody up at night barking at anything and everything outside of the yard: she was alone and needed to be with other dogs. Then, when she moved to the ex-in-law’s farm to roam free, she has been SO happy (and quiet! She *never* barks at all anymore!).

    We thought she should have been fine because the yard was big, even though it was fenced, when really she was suffering emotionally. This all explains why she was so “unruly” (or so we thought).

    Herein lies the reason that people should have to take a course before being a caretaker to any other living being (child, dog, gerbil…)

  63. i’ve seen dog breed exclusions in trailer park lot rental agreements and house leases. i’ve seen insurance companies that want to know what breeds and sizes of dogs you own for purposes of setting your rates, but i’ve never heard of being denied insurance altogether because of a dog.

    and yeah, understanding the pack instinct is pretty much dog ownership 101. it’s a major, serious part of how a dog’s mind works; being excluded from the pack is something worse than a death sentence for most dogs. this too is the root of separation anxiety, which can drive otherwise mild-mannered animals to completely destroy your house.

    basically, so long as a dog has another pack member present with it, things are fine; a dog alone, not good. but leaving a keepsake can help. if your dog has to (for instance) spend a night at the vet’s office, let it have an old sock that smells like you with it, it’ll be less panicky.

    the finer details of the pack instinct get into pack rank and hierarchy, pack leadership, and so on. but that’s another story.

  64. it would surprise me, brittney. presumably the largest influence on dog evolution by far is us, and what reason do we have to make them individualists?

  65. Some people think that dogs are evolving away from their pack roots, but that is debatable.

    Huh. That’s interesting. I’d not heard that before.

    I think I should look it up, because the topic of dog-human interaction interests me greatly. (It’s my effed up version of Mommy blogging.)

    What leads anyone to think that, I wonder?

  66. Ginger,
    To answer some of your questions, this articletalks about pit bulls in general and mentions:

    Meanwhile, some insurance agencies have compiled their own lists of vicious breeds, based on claims. Allstate Insurance, for instance, won’t offer homeowners insurance to Californians who own any of eight types of dogs: pit bulls (American Staffordshire terriers), akitas, boxers, chow chows, Dobermans, rottweilers, Presa Canarios and wolf hybrids, plus any mixes that include the breeds.

    “They are the dogs that generate the most lawsuits,” said spokesman Rich Halberg. Nationwide Insurance compiled a similar list, though it doesn’t include akitas or boxers.

    Bankrate.com has articles on the subject (here).

    This site offers a link to place that will help you find homeowners insurance if you own a pit or other of the breeds deemed dangerous.

    Argh…

  67. Well, at least this much:

    Meanwhile, some insurance agencies have compiled their own lists of vicious breeds, based on claims. Allstate Insurance, for instance, won’t offer homeowners insurance to Californians who own any of eight types of dogs: pit bulls (American Staffordshire terriers), akitas, boxers, chow chows, Dobermans, rottweilers, Presa Canarios and wolf hybrids, plus any mixes that include the breeds.

    “They are the dogs that generate the most lawsuits,” said spokesman Rich Halberg. Nationwide Insurance compiled a similar list, though it doesn’t include akitas or boxers.

    Full Article HERE

  68. Also, a question I had that got lost in the shuffle is are there other breeds that insurance companies flag? Do you have to specify the breed of dog you have when you sign an apartment lease??

    When I got my first homeowners insurance they wanted to know what kind of dog AND what kind of cats I had. I told them I had a half-chihuahua and half rat terrier and the guy laughed and said, “Vicious dog, eh?” He then told me they didn’t cover certain breeds like rottweilers and dobermans. Interestingly enough, I’ve known several rottweilers and dobermans that were far nicer than my half-chihuahua, half rat terrier that I have to keep locked up whenever people come over, lest he randomly bite someone, as he is apt to do.

    As far as the cat question, I was kinda floored. I was like, “You know, they’re just…cats. Regular old cats.” Apparently they don’t cover people who have BIG cats, like lions and tigers. Now, where in the hell would I keep a lion in La Vergne? It’s not like we have yards big enough to support a freaking lion. Not that the ins. company necessarily knows what a dump La Vergne is, but come on. A lion. Hardy har har.

  69. I’m pretty sure our apartment complex and/or our renter’s insurance company asked about the size and type of our animals, and indicated that they don’t allow for certain breeds. I’m not sure if that was because of the renter’s insurance requirement. They also initially required that cats be declawed, but I got my old vet to write a letter saying that they don’t recommend declawing for that purpose.

  70. My cats are pretty big, too, Mack. Spike’s 21 pounds and Simon’s 18 pounds. I failed to mention that to the insurance company, thank goodness my new ins. company doesn’t give a shit about whether or not I have cats.

  71. “Also, isn’t it curious that Allison won’t respond to any of the substantial discussion about bully breed.”

    Your love to go off topic, isn’t something I share.

    “Cherry-picks news stories about various incidents involving dogs classified as “pit bulls””

    Ya know, because those attacks didn’t happen… it’s just Grantham’s fault… he probably caused half of those attacks.

    “Alison, poor Alison. He can’t love you back.

    Not the way you want him to.”

    What the hell is does that mean? Does he have a pit bull that is going to attack me? Or is that a snide personal attack? I’m getting rather used to it here. It’s sad that you have to do that.

    “Allison, folks have already quoted that Grantham and explained to you what a toad’s fart he is. At this point, you’re just proving to people that you have an unwarranted fondness for Grantham and that you can’t read. I imagine the latter serves the perpetuation of the former well.”

    I couldn’t care less about him. But your logic is about as hollow as your personal attack is.

    “Breaking up a local dogfighting ring and ” vicious pit bull attacks” around the country are two entirely, unrelated entities. It is offensive that he relates the two”

    Because dogs used for fighting aren’t more violent and prone to attack? That makes absolutely NO sense.

    “I was bitten once by an English Mastiff.”

    My Pomchi bites me all the time… but he couldn’t maul a mouse. There’s a difference between animals that are able to KILL a human being, and one that will simply annoy you.

  72. Allison, you’re always welcome to comment here, as long as you like, but I must tell you that the longer you go on, the more I’m convinced that you don’t actually know or understand English.

  73. There’s a difference between animals that are able to KILL a human being, and one that will simply annoy you.

    yep. remarkably often, that’d be the difference between an animal that’s caught you unawares (or chosen to attack a child, or a disabled human) and an animal you’re prepared to handle.

    it’s sort of like how a “weapon” is really just any random object that you, who wield it, have decided you are going to use for causing harm with today. other animal species aren’t quite as clever as we are, but most vertebrates at least are perfectly capable of deciding that they darn well are going to kill that particular two-legs, there, if they think they have sufficient reason.

    the only really “safe” animals are ones too slow to catch up with us, or ones small enough for a juvenile human to kill one-handed without breaking a sweat, and even that is assuming they don’t hunt in packs. (individual piranha are no threat, after all.) dogs specifically, of course, are the prototypical pack-hunters…

  74. Allison:
    Did you READ the article about the fighting dogs rounded up?
    They were VERY HUMAN FRIENDLY.
    They DID NOT ATTACK PEOPLE.

    However, the dogs mentioned in the links attacked people.

    Two different kinds of situations.
    Two different kinds of stories.
    The only think linking them is the dogs.

    There is a BIG difference. If you know anything factual about these breeds, you will know that one of their highly favored traits is their human friendliness. You have to train these breeds to be human aggressive. It’s not in their nature. In the dogfighting world, if the dogs attack the handlers (who stand in the ring during the dog fight), those dogs are culled. I mean, this is what makes dogfighting all the more sad and horrific to me: that the dogs have to be human friendly and will do anything to please their people.

    And before anyone jumps on “human aggression” vs. “animal aggression,” there is a difference. Most dogs are animal aggressive to one degree or another–what dog doesn’t want to get that squirrel?. But going after a squirrel doesn’t mean the dog will also go after a person. Two types of aggression folks.

  75. “Allison, you’re always welcome to comment here, as long as you like, but I must tell you that the longer you go on, the more I’m convinced that you don’t actually know or understand English.”

    Why should I continue to post here? This is just a circle jerk cabal that looks for something to complain about, when there are things out there that are 100000000000 times more important than this.

    I’ve been accused of wanting Grantham to fuck me and told that I’m illiterate. That’s an obvious sign that I need to wipe the dust from my feet and go elsewhere. You have no respect for others.

  76. Allison, bless your heart, no, folks here have no respect for you because you are a literalist and kind of an idiot who apparently doesn’t understand how blogs work.

    Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

  77. there are things out there that are 100000000000 times more important than this

    zoinks! this sounds like a job for…

    (dum dum DUMM…)

    …Exaggeration Man!

  78. For B to tell someone not to let the door hit them…that means you are an asshole of the highest order. She puts up with wingnuts and psychopaths on a daily basis. Allison, you’re worse than that. You are willfully ignorant.

  79. “Allison, bless your heart, no, folks here have no respect for you because you are a literalist and kind of an idiot who apparently doesn’t understand how blogs work.

    Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.”

    You’re kidding, right? Tiny Cat Pants… Pam’s House Blend, you’re not. I’ve seen more compassion on Usenet. It’s not only the pit bulls that are vicious around here.

    “A cabal is a circle-jerk in which everyone uses hand sanitizer first. And lube. Strictly upscale.”

    Wow, after how many comments… at least something’s worthy of my reading. Something I can at least laugh at.

    “For B to tell someone not to let the door hit them…that means you are an asshole of the highest order. She puts up with wingnuts and psychopaths on a daily basis. Allison, you’re worse than that. You are willfully ignorant.”

    Again, simply more proof of the dog pack mentality up in this place. I’m sure you all are so meek and mild in real life that you have to take out your frustrations on others in blogs. It seems Grantham is your carcass of the moment. Something you can sit around and “yes, me too” or “ha ha, what an asshole” something to death. Shows your level of class and maturity.

  80. oh please, you’re not the only usenet veteran here you know. i spent most of a decade on alt.atheism; THAT was a vicious, short-tempered sort of place. aunt b’s blog? a nice, civilized tea party in the gazebo, is how i picture this place.

  81. Funny, Nomen, I’d always figured this place for more ‘lounging around someone’s living room’ than a tea party in a gazebo, but I think that’s just because I’m not much of an outdoor person. Tea is always welcome, though. *grins*

  82. Ha, Nomen and magni, I always thought of TCP as lounging around in someone’s bedroom, but that may be because I’ve been known to lie in bed with someone and have arguments about Russian and American literature in between other things. But someone’s bedroom with a really big bed, and a bunch of pillows and chairs around, too.

  83. Ooh, I like that one even more, nm. I like having substantive (and silly) conversations in bed. I just have a hard time envisioning the bedroom that would hold all of us!

  84. Well, that and I’m not so sure we’d be able to get any conversation in, what with the surplus of broad shoulders, crinkly eyes, and soft round bits in evidence. I think poor B might just go into a pleasure coma and never come out of it. ;)

    So yeah, my thoughts about this place are kind of like Mack’s cabin. Most of us are lounging around in the living room downstairs, some of us have wandered off to the kitchen to eat something or just argue around that great big table, and occasionally people will wander up that windy little staircase and into the nice, comfy bed. Makes for good conversation, y’know. (Especially since you can hear all the stuff going on downstairs anyway.)

  85. what dog doesn’t want to get that squirrel?.

    Mine, he’d rather bite gay men. Sad, but true.

    I’m sure you all are so meek and mild in real life that you have to take out your frustrations on others in blogs.

    Haaahahahahahahahaa haaaahahahahahahaha haaahahahahahahaha. Best laugh I’ve had all day. Yeah, this is a meek and mild in real life bunch, alright. Haaahahahahahahahahaha.

  86. As I said to my husband in the car on an unrelated matter earlier today…

    “So I guess I’m just not up for inheriting the earth, huh?”

    I am many things…meek is not foremost among them. Perhaps it should be, but it isn’t.

  87. Allison, bullshit.

    You do realize that everyone can read back over how this all went down, right?

    Though you’re now positing a revision of history in which you came over here and so sweetly behaved yourself and were met with unmerited hostility, if one but looks back at your first comment, they’ll find that the very first thing you ever posted here was a typification of me being some kind of tinfoil hat wearing lunatic.

    And thus you were met in return with matching tone. Which you have been whining and complaining abut since then. “Oh, boo hoo. You guys are so mean. Oh, boo hoo, no one will kiss my ass as they address my points so that my feelings are not accidentally bruised. Boo hoo. You’re not like Pam.”

    You came in here acting like a sanctimonious jackass and you were treated like a sactimonious jackass by a bunch of raucous jackasses.

    The fact that you have the audacity to complain about your treatment just tickles the shit right out of me. You must tell me. Does that often work for you? You barge into a place, act like a giant fucker, and everyone scrambles around to figure out what’s got you in a tizzy and works to smooth your ruffled feathers?

    I have a hard time believing that. And yet, that seems to be what you’re complaining about now. Please, tell me how mature you were when you barged in here talking about tinfoil hat wearing lunatics. I’m curious to try to understand how you can possibly feel like the wronged party here.

  88. “Though you’re now positing a revision of history in which you came over here and so sweetly behaved yourself and were met with unmerited hostility, if one but looks back at your first comment, they’ll find that the very first thing you ever posted here was a typification of me being some kind of tinfoil hat wearing lunatic.”

    Nice editing. What I said was lunacy. I didn’t say you were a lunatic. There’s a difference.

    I never said you were trying to fuck someone, simply for agreeing with them. I’ve not called anyone an idiot. Saying someone’s ideas are fucked up is one thing, but saying THEY are fucked up is another.

    The fact that you’re tickled over another person’s feelings tells me all I need to know. Obviously you’re some kind of blog sadist.

    I asked a simple question about your “boycott” and was attacked. Not my questions, not my ideas… but ME.

  89. Allison, this is B’s blog. She can engage her readers — or not — however she likes. You, on the other hand, don’t have to keep coming back, but here you are. You busted in aggressively and you got served in kind. You’re not going to get a collective apology or a kiss on the forehead. No one is jumping to your defense, though they’ve had four days to do so. Waste your time however you’d like, I guess, but it just seems to me that continuing to line up for punishment is neither healthy nor wise.

  90. Waste your time however you’d like, I guess, but it just seems to me that continuing to line up for punishment is neither healthy nor wise.

    And yet I mysteriously continue to find it sort of entertaining. So I do thank you for that.

  91. Obviously you’re some kind of blog sadist.

    Obviously you’re some kind of blog masochist. It must be kismet.

    Or, to quote the Dude, “Obviously you’re not a golfer”, as you barged in here, peed all over the B’s fucking rug (which really tied the room together, did it not?), and then got huffy.

    This unchecked aggression will not stand, man.

  92. Seems to me, everyone is engaging in pit-bull like behavior, locking down, rolling their eyes back, and not for a minute loosening their grip on on this.

    But yes, Allison, it isn’t like you have turf to protect, right? I mean, I’ve never seen you here before, and you have had your say, whats the point of continuing? Further, though it rarely happens here, blogs can be devolve into viciousness and petty attacks in a heartbeat. You look inexperienced.

  93. “But yes, Allison, it isn’t like you have turf to protect, right? I mean, I’ve never seen you here before, and you have had your say, whats the point of continuing? Further, though it rarely happens here, blogs can be devolve into viciousness and petty attacks in a heartbeat. You look inexperienced.”

    Like a virgin…like a vir…her…er…gin…

    My latest comments aren’t about turf, but common decency. You can say that I acted aggressively (I’d say I was assertive, not aggressive), but I’ve never made degrading sexual references to anyone here, and I’ve never called anyone an idiot.

    “Or, to quote the Dude, “Obviously you’re not a golfer”, as you barged in here, peed all over the B’s fucking rug (which really tied the room together, did it not?), and then got huffy.”

    Excuse me? Commenting on a blog is barging in? Is this a private party? Last I checked, the comment’s section here is open to all. Simply for commenting, I’m being aggressive? I haven’t peed on anything. I’ve been civil and engaged in a spirited discussion… only to be told I’m an idiot and want to fuck Grantham. Who’s peeing on who?

    Your petty responses here have shown this blog post to be nothing more than a boycott of civility, logic,and of common decency.

  94. Who’s peeing on who?

    Masochist AND water sports enthusiast! Plus, it should be “who’s peeing on whom?”

    Your petty responses here have shown this blog post to be nothing more than a boycott of civility, logic,and of common decency.

    No, just stupidity and ignorance.

  95. Your petty responses here have shown this blog post to be nothing more than a boycott of civility, logic,and of common decency.

    Alison, I disagree. If you’ll read back through the thread, I also questioned why Aunt B. and others had such a strong (and what I thought to be unwarranted) reaction to Grantham’s post. Because I didn’t know the history (because I haven’t been reading B’s blog for years like some of the others, and also because I don’t get here everyday), it seemed out of proportion.

    As I’m sure you know, when you question a person about something they are passionate about, it can elicit a defensive reaction. It isn’t always about “you”…sometimes it’s a good thing to try and take that reaction and make an effort to understand why rather than escalate the argument by shooting back more negativity.

    They explained why they hold the viewpoint they do on this issue.

    Responding by a boycott or strongly worded blog post wouldn’t be the response I would choose personally, but it’s her right to respond as she chooses to.

    The least we can do is respect her feelings on it, and refrain from calling the way somebody chooses to respond to something that means so much to them as ”nothing more than tin-foil-hat-wearing lunacy.”

  96. Doesn’t that generally entail, oh, leaving?

    It does. Unless you are so firmly governed by your faith in Kibo that you cannot help but pay homage to him through your actions.

  97. See, here’s the thing… if someone were coming after me with a baseball bat (granted, swinging at me after I’d been lobbing rocks at her), and I had the opportunity during this whuppin’ (is that the correct southern spelling?) to just walk out the door… well, heck, I’d be out of there.

    Unless, of course, I secretly relished getting into these kinds of tussles. Unless, I liked thinking of myself as / making myself some sort of victim. Then, ya know, sticking around and getting my butt beat might bring on some sort of thrill.

    I think Allison keeps chiming in because she thinks that sooner or later we’re all going to slap ourselves on the forehead in one of those, “I could have had a V-8!” moments and realize the error of our ways. As though if she just keeps plugging on, she’ll eventually “win.” Because in Allison’s mind, there is no possibility that she could have been wrong or maybe even simply confused.

    In Allison’s mind, saying B’s boycott is “nothing more than tin-foil-hat-wearing lunacy,” isn’t insulting to B because she didn’t say, “B is a tin-foil-hat-wearing lunatic.” (That she honestly doesn’t see how that comes across as a personal insult to B is beyond me, but, it takes all kinds.)

    And for the record, I can’t think of a single time in my life that I’ve been referred to as meek.

  98. Don’t worry, this is my last entry here. I’m not into this kind of pain. I main reason I stuck around was to show just exactly how illogical, ill mannered, and nasty the “boycotters” here are.
    I think I’ve proven that 5 times over.

    Namaste

  99. Namaste

    This brings me more joy than having puppies nurse on my earlobes.

    Allow me to paraphrase:

    “You all are a bunch of evil nasty fuckwits. I hate you and I’m leaving and not coming back. Again. This time for REALS.

    Oh, and the Divinity in Me bows to the Divinity in You.”

    While we gladly accept “Namaste” as your parting shot, Allison, we would have also accepted:

    –Peace out, Bitches!
    –Shalom and Fuck yourselves!
    –Kumbayah you wretched ignorant scum!

  100. And I’ll tell you why I can’t put up with you people: because you’re BASTARD people! That’s what you are! You’re just bastard people! And I’m goin’ home and I’m gonna… I’m gonna BITE MY PILLOW, is what I’m gonna do!

    Wa Alaykuum Salaam.

  101. Shit, maybe Allison knows something even my doctors don’t: the mass in my lung IS my fetal twin, thus resulting in me being able to have a one-woman boycott that contains more than one woman!

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