But Don’t We Have an Imperative to Learn to Be Comfortable in Our Bodies?

So, I’ll just say up front that, yes, I’m fat and yes, I have mixed emotions about it, because, yes, I, too, wish I had a tiny smoking hot body and that when I walked in the room, people quivered just looking at me and I wish my dog could talk to me, too, but it ain’t happening.  And, as a consolation prize, I have the most fun tits ever.  They’re big and round and feel good and substantial in your hand, and they’re soft and warm, and most days, they feel good when they’re touched and they look inviting in the right bra.

And I am big and round and warm and soft and I feel good and substantial in your hand and it feels good to snuggle up against me.

So, you know, it is what it is.

I could be thinner, but I’m too lazy and I am adverse to misery and discomfort.

I would rather eat what I want when I want and be fat than to count calories and fat and carbohydrates and good this and bad that and exercise and count the minutes I exercise and keep the math in my head about whether I’ve done enough to counter the stuff I’ve eaten, and still be fatter than most people, even if I were thinner than I am.

I can’t remember who said it, but it’s true that most women obsess over food like many men obsess over sports.  We know stats about food, numbers and percentages so detailed it would make an oddsmaker stand back in awe.  And yet, men obsess over sports because they enjoy them (or have money on them).  They take straightforward pleasure in the numbers.

We take masochistic pleasure in our numbers, constantly going over them in our heads so that we can decide if we’ve been good enough or if we’ve been bad, as if what we put in our mouths reflects on our moral character and our worth as human beings.

We don’t know what we like to eat and what we don’t.  We don’t know what we really enjoy and what we think we enjoy because it’s transgressive to enjoy it, because we eat for reasons that have to do with how bad or good a woman we are.  We tell ourselves that we feel better when we’re thinner, that we’re happier when we’re thinner, that we’re healthier when we’re thinner even though we damn well know that the effort it takes to be thinner makes us feel very bad and that the ways we make ourselves thin are neither healthy nor pleasurable in any non-fucked up sense of the word.


I want to go off on a tangent just for a second.  So, Saturday, the Professor and I were up to Mack’s house for the great Tennessee Wood-Pull and the Professor and I were sitting on the porch drinking beers and talking to SuperMousey and she, SuperMousey, was complaining about what a fat butt she has.

Now, I know your impulse is to say, “What the fuck?  SuperMousey’s butt is tiny.  It’s the kind of butt that has to be precariously balanced on a toilet in order to keep said owner from falling in.”

We did not say that, though; we told her that her butt wasn’t nearly big enough for her to be bragging about having a big butt.

And part of the reason we did that, of course, is to give her another way to think about her butt, that having a big butt might not be something to dread and fight against, but might be something she might enjoy having.

But the thing I want you to consider is that she’s eleven.  Her butt will never be smaller than it is now and it will, because she’s got at least two, if not three, big shape changes ahead of her yet, get bigger.

It is literally impossible for SuperMousey to have a smaller butt than she does and her butt will never be smaller than it is now*.

And yet she’s already learning how to fret over it.  She’s already learning how to pick at her own body, like it’s her enemy, to look at herself and be able to spot her “problem” areas.

And it pisses me off so much that I about want to cry.

I mean, sincerely, what the fuck kind of culture are we perpetuating where we teach girls that their bodies, the bodies that run them around all day through fields and woods and streams and bouncing on trampolines and skating through the house, the muscles strong enough to carry them through that are undesirable?  That their body is something to be fought against and struggled with?


Over at Pandagon, they’re talking about thinness. And it’s a hard conversation to read, let alone participate in (though I gave it a shot before it upset me too much to be rational about this).  And I don’t want to turn this post into some “Let’s rip on Amanda” thing, because I do think that if we don’t ever have the courage to talk frankly about this stuff, we can’t ever get at the meat (so to speak) of what keeps us trapped in shit that makes us miserable.

But the thing I’m struck by in her post and in her comments is this.  She keeps saying that thin women get more attention from men than even slightly non-thin women.  I believe that is true.  But what I don’t understand is why a feminist wants attention from men who will only pay attention to her if she’s thin enough.

I don’t know.  Maybe I answered my own question at the beginning of this post.  Maybe it is about how good it feels to feel like you have all the choice in who you might fuck.

But I keep fighting with myself about this, too, because as feminists, don’t we want to be valued for more than just whether we win at being the most fuckable girl in the room?  Why are we even worried about “winning” the most fuckable girl in the room contest anyway?  Aren’t we supposed to be striving to get beyond competing with other women over whatever it is we are, at this second, being lured into competing with other women about?

What’s the use in being feminist if it doesn’t help you live a less miserable life?


Okay, let’s come at this from another direction.  Do you think there’s something wrong with an eleven year old girl sitting around wondering if her butt is too fat?

Well, then, I ask you this.  What are you going to do about it?

Are you going to model for her how to run those numbers in her head?  How to keep a constant tally of whether she’s “good” or “bad”?  Are you going to model for her a life in which fretting over food and restricting herself and keeping herself in line as best she can without making too many people aware of how much fretting and scrutinizing and keeping herself in line she’s doing is just what women do?

Or do you owe it to her, and yourself, to try to live in your body in the world in some way that doesn’t entail making misery and deprivation and self-denial central to who you are?


And, of course, I say all this and still do a lousy job sometimes of living it, even though I feel a great almost moral imperative to figure out how to stop making myself miserable and spreading misery to others.

*Unless she becomes severely ill.


35 thoughts on “But Don’t We Have an Imperative to Learn to Be Comfortable in Our Bodies?

  1. Aren’t we supposed to be striving to get beyond competing with other women over whatever it is we are, at this second, being lured into competing with other women about?

    Why yes. Yes it is.”> the pretty, pretty princess and her plain, but smart, sidekick…and I hate it. Both sides are robbed of what could be wonderfully rewarding friendships because of it.

  2. It’s really about the eyes, the smile and the warmth in the voice, not about the shape of the body.

  3. I have to disagree with two things here. First:

    …thin women get more attention from men than even slightly non-thin women.

    Not true. Or, perhaps I should ask, “What men?” I haven’t taken a formal survey, but you should all take it on faith that many men do not agree with the formula thinner=better.


    It’s really about the eyes, the smile and the warmth in the voice, not about the shape of the body.

    I’m glad that works for you, Big Dog, and I agree that those things are important. But I like the way women’s bodies are shaped, and I like the way women just are physically. Now maybe I’m an oddball to believe this, but there is no such thing as a “perfect” body for any gender. There is only beauty, and you (the individual) will know it when you see it. I believe it would be helpful if we could all cast aside the notion that there is a societal standard of beauty. That notion is only beneficial to the people who need us to feel bad about ourselves in order for them to sell us things.

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  5. B, I also spotted the unusual contradiction in that particular post. I didn’t want to rag either – Amanda is usually very sex-positive, and after all she’s not superhuman and that desire to attract male attention (however problematic) is inevitable for straight women who want to be out there attracting sex partners. But I wished, as I’d read it, that she’d frame it differently… yes, fat is pathologized but not to the extent that fat women aren’t getting laid as much as thin women. Well, some perhaps not as much as they’d like, but who is?

    Setting that aside and returning to Supermousey, and “what are you going to do?”… I’ve been thinking a lot about my little-girl fat issues, particularly since the child salon-party thread at Shapely Prose. I went to a salon party when I was in single digits and I threw a tantrum because the beauticians failed to make me beautiful – they gave me a grown-up updo that emphasized my chubby child face, and I remember feeling humiliated. I learned how to hate fat at dance school, I think. My family was always quick to tell me I was a beautiful little girl, but that wasn’t enough… maybe because they weren’t the object of my desire to be a perfect object. Boys weren’t either, though… I was completely sure that boys wouldn’t like me because of my fat, but they weren’t the source of my low self-esteem either. I really think the object of that desire for beauty is simply to become a beautiful object because being a beautiful object is a virtue. It’s like a holy mission, and you can’t argue with abstract ideals.

    But… replacing those ideas sounds like a good plan. Rewriting curves as beautiful was a good move… possibly to be followed by pointing out tons of ways to be beautiful that don’t involve looking like celebrities. And yes, it’s a good idea to avoid modeling self-hate in front of children. Don’t criticize your own body and eating habits and so forth.

    But she’s going to get it somewhere else – friends, friend’s parents, television. So, how does one rewrite the holy litany so that intelligence and independence and talent override the beautiful-object goal? I heard plenty of encouragement to pursue those other virtues when I was growing up…. why did the desire to be impossibly beautiful still win out?

    Still thinking.

  6. I guess part of what bothers me about the thread over there is that Amanda seems to assume that her personal experience of gaining weight is the universal experience, and I don’t think it is. At least it wasn’t mine. As I commented over there, I do think that personality – self confidence, sociability, etc. – does affect whether men pay attention and whether you are considered “cute”. In a sense it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy: if you are convinced that gaining 10 pounds makes you unattractive and unlovable, you’ll start acting that way.

  7. Just riffing off what folks are saying, I feel like everybody’s got certain issues, even well-established feminists, where they still really need feminism. For me, reading that discussion, I felt like we were seeing Amanda saying outloud something that’s got to be very hard to admit–here’s the point where she cannot believe feminism. When it comes to her weight, she cannot believe that she can just weigh what she weighs without struggle and still have a life she wants, still have value as a woman.

    Admitting that sucks. And so I’m not going to pile on to her for being fat-phobic. I could be misreading her, but I don’t think she’s saying “Being fat sucks.” I think she’s saying, “It would suck for me if I were fat.” And that’s a different, more complicated thing.

    Because you can combat “being fat sucks” by saying all the kinds of things fat activists say.

    But the only way you can combat a woman (or a man, too, though not in this discussion) who believes that being [whatever] would suck so much for her because being [whatever] would reflect on her worth as a person is through some kind of radical paradigm shift (which, of course, I believe feminism can provide).

    Because we’re not talking about fat as just fat. We rarely ever do that. We’re talking about fat as a measure–usually in direct inverse proportion–to a woman’s value to society.

    It’s like being caught between two truths. One is what Twisty keeps saying, that we all do fucked up shit and make soul-deep compromises in order to get by in a system stacked against us. While at the same time it is also true that often giving up some of the more soul-crushing things we do to get by makes us happier and so when we see someone–and let me be clear, we are all often that someone–who should know the benefits of giving up getting by in the system continuing to struggle to function within the system, it’s frustrating–because she should know better–and frightening–because it reminds us of how far yet we too have to go.

    And what can we do for the women who are coming through after us?

    Because, yes, they do get it–even if they don’t get it at home or from the grown-ups around them–they get that this, fat, is not just about fat, but about whether or not you have value–both to others and to yourself.

    I’m not sure.

    It’s a gauntlet–that time between 14 and 24–and maybe there isn’t anything we can do to rescue those girls. Maybe thinking of it as “rescue” in the first place still reinforces bullshit we’d be better off without.

    But if we give up the idea of rescue and saving, is there some other idea we can put in place?

    That’s why I keep coming back to this idea that we’ve got to get our shit together. We’ve got to show them other possibilities and offer help when they ask, but then trust that they will find their way through.

    But that doesn’t quite satisfy me either.

  8. Huh. Funny. I’ve always thought that dudes with encyclopedic knowledge of sports stats were complete weirdos. Yet I’ve never stopped to think about how I know the calorie, fat and carb count of nearly everything I eat.
    A few years ago, I was very sick from an ulcer. I dropped down to 113 pounds. For someone who is 5’8″, that’s way too thin. But most of the women who knew me said, “omigod, you look so thin!” like it was a good thing. The men? “You really need to eat.”

  9. Good point. I am intrigued by the new Jenny Craig ad with Queen Latifah as their spokesperson. The pitch is about losing weight for health reasons and to combat Diabetes and Cardiac disease. Interesting. I think QL looks great and a skinny version of her would look weird. I always thought that she presented a very positive image for a woman with some size and substance. Start listening for the new weight loss mantra-don’t you want to be healthy? don’t you want to take care of yourself? and oh by the way you can come out of it looking like a post divorce Valerie Bertinelli.

  10. Mack, that would help explain my phone bills…

    I also find the Queen Latifah/”we’re all going use Jenny Craig and Weight Watchers to be healthy” movement intriguing. Clearly, on the one hand, it signals that the studies that Campos and the fat activists have been citing for years–that the vast majority of people cannot lose weight and keep it off, that dieting (going down and up in weight, repeatedly) is worse for your heart than being fat, that health is more directly tied to being active and eating well than being thin–are worrisome to the diet industry, because they’re trying as hard as they can to coopt talk of health and well-being. That tells me that even the diet industry puts some stake in the veracity of these studies.

    The other thing I find intriguing is that it seems to me that the Latifah part of it has an added layer of complexity. She’s been photographed everywhere for as long as I can remember with her “personal trainer.” You’re going to tell me a celebrity with a “personal trainer” and access to whatever chef she wants can’t lose weight? Well, then, either it can’t be done or that woman’s not really her personal trainer or both.

  11. Aunt B, you are right, there isn’t any easy solution. I realize that at 40 I’m much more comfortable in my body than I was at 20, even though I’m 25 pounds heavier now. I’m not sure there is anything anyone could have told me back then that would have changed my self-perception.

    And the Queen Latifah thing kind of boggles my mind. I personally don’t think that “eating healthier” is equivalent to living off of heavily processes frozen meals a la Jenny Craig.

  12. My longtime former co-worker’s daughter and her friends started obsessing about their weight and talking about going on diets when they were seven. SEVEN. It killed me.

    While I would love to be able to tell every young girl those body issues don’t matter and to not listen to society’s BS about it all, 11-13 is certainly a more normal time to start having issues. But it’s sick that girls much younger and in elementary school are doing that too.

    (And yep, you are right, Supermousey is a little slip of a girl, gah…)

  13. Oh boy – okay, I am going to say something which may make you all rise up and slap me sideways, BUT:

    Weight IS a health issue.

    Which is part of what makes this whole weight/beauty/self-worth thing so insidious. Because if I am a woman in this culture, and I have fought my way through the insanity of the pressures exerted by pretty much everything I see, hear, and read to live up to some impossible standard – if I have battled through that, then damn skippy I’m going to entrench, and screw being healthy or even thinking about my diet or exercise, and to prove how un-oppressed I am, I’m a eat this whole goddamn bag of Maui Onion Potato Chips and fuck you if you think less of me for doing it.

    Polarizing in the other direction is not helpful. Because they take from you either way, whether you’re skinny girl obsessive or a fat activist – you lose your ability to walk your own path. Your body is unique. The relationship between your weight and your health is unique to YOU, and for you to arbitrate, and for anyone to make unilateral judgments about your character or worth, or your succumbing to oppression, or whatever-the-fuck people say, is the same bullshit.

    Yes, yo-yo dieting is bad for you, but there are also many instances when carrying over a certain amount of weight can cause health problems, and all this flap just muddies the water so that all weight issues get lumped into the same pile.

    There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be healthy, wanting to learn about how to eat well; just as there’s nothing wrong with realizing that losing weight and keeping it off is a full-time job you’d rather not have.

    It’s about the underlying motivation for losing (or not losing) weight, or worrying about it (or not worrying about it); and the difficulty of first honestly identifying those motives, then addressing ourselves to the complicated task of resisting the urge to revert to default mode when thinking or talking about our physical selves – and yes, for most women in this culture, default mode consists of a lot of feelings of inadequacy and hopelessness and low self-worth.

    That default mode is the target, isn’t it? So we can start to pick away at the habitual, well-worn ways of thinking about our bodies? So we can stop feeling like there’s a universal that will fit all of us, and take the time to learn what works for each of us as individuals, and perhaps begin to see all that marketing as just plain not applying to us, because we know our bodies and we know our selves?

  14. SEVEN.

    Yes…my daughter is 7, and her friends are all already talking about being too fat. We’ve chatted about it on here before, and many of the discussions here have inspired me to really be careful about how I talk about my own weight struggles in front of her. Because I have a ton of baggage about my weight fluctuations, being made fun of when I was in school, and never having dates when I was in high school…cuz I was teh fat girl. Unreal…

    My girl looks up to SuperMousey in awe. I hope they, and their friends, will realize how beautiful they are!!!

  15. See, though, Grammy, I think that–as we think about it–weight is not a health issue. We use the “health issue” aspect of it to justify our continued fretting and number crunching. That’s part of what’s going on with Jenny Craig and Weight Watchers. They’re just switching from “be sexy” to “be healthy” as the “right” goal for women to have, but what they sell women on–number crunching and such–is the same old shit it’s always been.

    Imagine if, instead of viewing weight as a problem, we viewed weight as an indicator of problems? We kind of get that this is how it is when we talk about eating disorders. I mean, really, when you look at an anorexic woman, it’s not her thinness that is the problem. Her thinness is just what makes her problem noticeable. It’s not okay to not eat anything but water and carrots for days and it’s not okay to do that at 80 lbs, the same way it’s not okay to do that at 180 lbs.

    That’s what I think is so crucial about the health at any size movement. Instead of pretending that someone who weighs 180 is just inherently healthier than someone who weighs 280, their focus is on “are you getting 30 minutes or more of exercise a day” and “are you eating tasty and nutritious meals”?

    If people exercise and cut back on junk food, they will be healthier, regardless of what they weigh, and many of us, if we do that, will lose some weight.

    But I think the thing is that we’ve got to uncouple ourselves from the idea that being fat automatically means being unhealthy and being thin automatically means being healthy AND we’ve got to get over thinking that being fat is immoral and being thin is moral and righteous.

    We’ve never fretted more about our weight as a culture than we do right now and we’ve never been fatter. That says to me that making people feel shitty about being fat doesn’t work.

    So, yes, I think in the end we end up agreeing. We’ve got to get over the whole fucked up mindset, that “urge to revert to default mode when thinking or talking about or physical selves” and we’ve got to learn to eat well and move well and live well and be happy with who we are.

    Does that make sense? I’m all for people being healthier and, if in the process of that, they lose weight, great. But having as your goal weightloss for any other reason than being some kind of body-mod person is problematic at best and probably prone to failure. I’d like to undermine that, too. Especially when weightloss is sold as something women must start trying to achieve as soon as they become aware that they are women.

  16. Sarcastro made a good point last weekend, and it bears repeating here. I agree that there are self-awareness issues, and i also agree that we tend to teach women that they are what they look like. But, the argument needs to be made that we have not altered how we eat, when we have clearly altered how we live and work. The families before us ate large meals, then went out and worked all day. Physical work, the kind that tends to burn calories. Americans need to take into account their lifestyles when deciding what to eat, and how much.

  17. Yeah, I see what you’re saying. And I think that you focused what I was trying to get at with my whole “it’s an individual thing” thing – that what size you are, what is a healthy size for you, can only be determined by you, and not some arbitrary outside standard. And that we not become reactionary, and not abdicate our ability to learn about our own bodies and how to become stronger and healthier because we think that would mean we had bought into the marketing of the diet industry.

    And I recognize that this is about replacing the currently accepted dogma of “fat equals unhealthy/unworthy/unlovely/un-whatever.” So perhaps what I should say is “weight CAN cause health problems” but that this is determined by many factors other than a number on a scale.

    AND, yes – I’m absolutely 100% singing in the choir about all of this being about deeper issues and motivations, and this is where I really want to find the way to create a different environment for those girls coming up after us.

    Can we all be loud-mouthed enough on this subject to provide at least a tiny counterbalance to the deluge of negative messages that a girl is exposed to nearly every waking moment? I wonder.

    One of my dearest friends has a daughter who had started saying things like “I’m so fat” when she was 8, and I just about wanted to tear out my hair. It’s bad enough to go through it yourself, but when you see a kid – a little narrow-assed KID – talking this shit it’s just – heartbreaking. But I wonder how much of that talk is coming from a really firm set of beliefs? You know? How quickly do these ideas really harden in an 8-year-old’s brain? I’ve heard kids parroting their parents, complaining about traffic and other “adult” stuff, and I wonder, I wonder – is it possible that the “bad-body” talk in a child is soft enough, that it can still be confronted? That maybe, partly, they are still just trying on what their idea of being grown-up is? And grown-up women talk shit about their bodies. So maybe – can we be loud enough in the other direction?

    I know that it’s hard to get through the massive noise created by industries that want us to spend our money trying to feel better about ourselves, but I don’t know what else to do.


  18. B, your last comment should be published as a stand alone column or post. Perfect.

    It is the “selling” and “marketing” of weight loss that I can’t stand. It preys on some people’s (men and women) insecurities and fears. But then doesn’t most beauty/image marketing.

  19. I’ve been thinking, too, about my dad’s new diet, the one the nutritionist worked up for him. I should have made a copy of it to post for y’all, but the thing that struck me about it is that I don’t believe that I could eat that much food. Not day in and day out. But there it was, his low-salt, heart-healthy diet and it’s basically got him eating all damn day, it looks like to me.

    And you know what I realized? I associate being healthy with being thin and being thin with being hungry. I keep thinking, well, if I want to be healthy, I’ve got to cut back on what I eat.

    So I stared a long time at that plan dumbfounded, because I don’t see how you could be hungry on it.

    And I still don’t quite know what to make of that. I mean, I knew that eating a healthy diet meant a lot of fresh vegetables, but that was the first time I’d seen exactly what they mean by a lot.

    My point is that I think most people have no idea what eating healthy actually looks like because we equate eating healthy with eating to loose weight, not eating to get the nutrition we need.

    As for you, Mack, though I think you and Sarcastro are brilliant, you are wrong. We don’t eat how we ate 100 years ago. I, for one, don’t cook with lard, or butter. I don’t eat meat that once ate the grass on my land. I don’t feed the chicken I eat corn that I grew in my garden. I don’t eat vegetables out of my garden.

    My great grandparents never even heard of high fructose corn syrup, let alone consumed it since they were born. They also didn’t drink diet soda, which, studies now show, seems to make it harder for people who drink it to lose weight. And they didn’t store their foods in plastic containers which some studies have indicate may also, when they start to get fuzzy, leak into our bodies and fuck us up in ways that make us fat. They didn’t have the same hormones in their milk that we have, In other words, they weren’t awash in the same weird chemical stews we seem to be fine with ingesting.

    So, yes, Grammy, I haven’t even gotten to your good points. I do think there’s a big element of trying language on, seeing if the older women I’m around right now are concerned about the same things other older women seem concerned about. That’s why I think it’s so important to model another way of being. A lot of girls get that the media is not impartial, that there’s an agenda that often has to do with separating them from their money. And those girls will look for alternate ideas.

    We need to be sure that we are those ideas.

    And why shouldn’t we be? They’re good ideas. They make life better. And we deserve to feel good about our lives.

  20. “And you know what I realized? I associate being healthy with being thin and being thin with being hungry. I keep thinking, well, if I want to be healthy, I’ve got to cut back on what I eat.”

    Yah – it’s crazy, no? I think this is a big part of things, too – educating ourselves so we know what we really mean when we talk about what is healthy and what is not. Being healthy is not about denial, as far as I’m concerned, and certainly not about eating fat free cardboard as a way to be virtuous, get approval (or men), or conform to an impossible standard. Learning to eat for nutrients, not count calories is a great thing, because then the focus is on nurturing the body, not punishing it for being bad. And it is surprising what healthy food really looks like.

    It’s gotta be about knowledge – of ourselves and our own unique bodies – hell, even the knowledge that each body IS unique. I’ve got broad shoulders, small tits, and a wide ass – ain’t no way in hell I’m ever going to look like Heidi Klum (or whatever the current standard of “perfect” is), not because I’m not healthy or trying hard enough or whatever, but because I don’t have her frame, her build, her genes.

    I just wish so much for us all, that we could be so savvy on our own selves, physical and spiritual, that we can become our own yardstick for all that sabotaging shit coming at us from the media or whatever, instead of using shit to measure our worth. Which is the same thing you have said already, many times and quite well so I will stop re-stating the case and shutup now.

  21. About 7-8 years ago I became very ill. Close to death at one point. I uncontrollably lost a lot of weight and ended up in about the 90 lb range. When I got some measure of control, I stabilized right at 100 for some time (a few years). I never got so much attention and compliments about my weight/physique in my life, from men and women alike, before or since.

    All I say is that I pray God every day that I get sick again.

  22. And you know what I realized? I associate being healthy with being thin and being thin with being hungry.

    About 10 years ago, I lost 40 lbs. on LA Weight Loss, and found that it was the healthiest balance of proteins, veggies, fruits, fats, carbs, etc. And I’ve gotta tell ya…I was never hungry on it and I felt great!

    The cool thing is that you don’t have to spend a ton of money on some paid weight loss program to eat healthy. For me, it’s a matter of discipline in choosing healthy foods. That’s not saying to deprive oneself of anything whatsoever, but it’s all in a good balance. I think balance was the key to how great I felt on the plan.

    I can definitely feel a difference in my health when I eat too much of one thing over another (i.e., too much meat or not enough protein or carbs or whatever)…

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  24. B, you are absolutely right.

    Mack and I are brilliant.

    You, however, continue to be wrong and have missed the point that Mack and I were discussing.

    Yes, great granny B didn’t have Diet Dr. Pepper, but she also didn’t sit her ass in front of a computer screen and gaze at her navel all day, either.

  25. That’s very sad, Sarcastro. I really like your mom (since we know everyone in your paternal line can be killed only by chopping their heads off) and I hate to think what that must have been like for her to watch her grandma succumb to the cyanogenic glycosides in many species of acacia.

  26. As with everything, balance is key. Sure, our ancestors didn’t eat so much fake food, but they typically died younger from a lifestyle that focused on work, work, work. There is an important point to make about food intake vs. calories burned, and it is a quality of life issue. Our medical advances allow us to live longer despite our bad habits, but there is a price to pay for that.

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