I think S-town Mike is calling me a libertarian, which, just by the mere suggestion of it, ought to cause real libertarians to go into apoplectic shock.
Anyway, ignoring that, I have but two things to say:
1. I have little sympathy for people who move into neighborhoods because they’re convenient and full of places to eat and clubs to go to and music to hear and then complain about the noise. Yeah, guess what. Downtown clubs that have live music can get noisy. I’m sorry you, urban pioneer, didn’t realize that before you bought your now-worthless $500,000 condo, but I can only guess that you are an idiot. Did you not drive around downtown? Here’s another clue: the traffic is bad and parking can be expensive! Also, there’s no convenient grocery store.
2. Mike says
And contra Aunt B., one need not be labeled “Victorian” to argue for obviously sane and relatively liberal limits on urban noise. In my opinion, even linking the issue of noise overtly to the art of seduction strikes me as a bit repressed itself. There are classically based arguments for balance and moderation that have little to do with sexuality per se. In that sense, I can see nothing wrong with balancing entertainment “concepts” with community welfare, but then again, I’m not committed to a disposable Downtown.
to which I say, “Bullshit.” And “bullshit” on just about every level. First, we’re not talking about “the art of seduction.” We’re talking about women being able to make a living providing pleasure and entertainment, which looks pretty damn similar to music venues being able to make an income providing pleasure and entertainment. And this idea that outside folks…and let me be clear here…who don’t participate in those activities, should get to dictate the parameters under which those activities take place for the moral good of the people participating in those activities?
“Moderation” is the guise under which well-meaning middle-class folks impose their morality on the rest of us. It is, quite frankly, the middle-class left’s work around for the 1st Amendment. Oh, no, we don’t call it “religion,” we call it “morality” or “striking a balance,” but make no mistake, folks, it’s about using the weight of the State to impose your metaphysical beliefs about right and wrong onto others.
And I call bullshit.
2b. Oh, yes, Aristotle, famed for his long ruminations on the freedom and equality of women… oh, yeah, right.
2c. Are you suggesting I’m repressed? And why, Mr. S-town Mike, are you sitting around speculating on how willing I am to let my drawers drop to hard wood? If that’s your idea of flirting, I must tell you, it leaves something to be desired.
Edited to add: Still, what the hell? If you want to come over, I’ll put some very soft music on, and a long dress that covers me from neck to feet and I’ll spend the evening sitting across the room from you, slowly raising my skirt just above my ankles. I don’t mind scandalizing the neighbors with that kind of behavior if it provides you with some pleasure.
Tiny Cat Pants 
Actually (and this is neither here nor there) there is a convenient grocery store! H. G. Hills opened an Urban Market on Church Street. It has everything – bread, milk, produce, deli meat, cheese, a bakery, cleaning supplies, cereal, pasta. I was so excited to see it a few weeks ago, and I’ve driven and parked at the library several times just to walk there and pretend I live downtown in a real urban environment.
While I have no opinion one way or the other on the noise limits downtown, it’s a little disingenuous to suggest that people who live nearby aren’t participating in the activity. Their complaint is that the noise forces them to participate willy nilly. Which is hardly the same as not participating in lap dancing; I don’t know of anything that forces anyone outside the strip joint to be part of the experience. If you want to oppose limiting the noise, you’re on much more solid ground noting that the complainers knew the source of noise was there when they moved in. (If that is, in fact, true.)
It would be interesting to see if Freaky Weasel is right–what would measure 85 db downtown? It seems to me that his contention is that not much would–since we have few venues in the city for outdoor performances.
That’s the other reason this reminds me of the strip club issues–let’s create a solution to a “problem” so that we can set up more regulations and enforcements.
Plus, I’d bet you dollars to donuts this is more in response to the feud between the Adelicia and South Street than anything and that grates on me.
I mean to whom do I complain that they stuck a big building up that blocks my view of the sky?
to whom do I complain that they stuck a big building up that blocks my view of the sky?
That’s what zoning commission hearings are supposed to be about, preemptively.